Much ado about war...

If you were asked to help defend those who could not defend themselves, would you be one of those seven? Would you?

when you speak of those that cannot defend themselves, who are you referring to? most americans who choose not to defend themselves by not joining the military (me included)? or someone else?

i think the question also changes meaning when you are posed the same question and the enemy is knocking at your door, than when you are knocking at the enemy's door. or at least the answer may be different.

edit:

"It is the farmers who are victorious" ... The victors are always those who either cannot defend themselves

i dont necessarily accept that the farmers dont defend themselves because they cant. they may choose not to, but many wars have been fought by the disadvantaged. in some cases they win and others they dont.

take for instance the US revolutionary war. the commanding officers may have been trained military personel, but the average "warrior" were farmers who felt strongly about the cause they were fighting for.

so maybe the people who win the war are the people who choose not engage in war.

Well in the past there was not a police department you could go to, today it is, instead of applying the law yourself you go to the police and they will do it, doing it yourself is against the law
 
Is like me going into my neighbor's house to "arrest" him  because he is planting marihuana in his basement and i do it only because i'm bigger and stronger than him
 
That's today, now in the past when there was not police to go to i would say no either, sounds so hollywood to say yes but the truth is that i'm risking my life for other people, when maybe my own family needs me more, when my family needs me to bring food every day, when my family needs me to protect them, i wont risk my life not because i'm a coward but because if i loose my life not only i lost my life for a cause that was not mine but i would be leaving my own family helpless
 
Those that cant defend themselves would be those with no arms, no legs or children. So far i dont know if there was a village with only those type of citizens 

i would not be one of the seven. i value my own life more than i  do others, sorry folks, but its the truth.i have babies that need me, and my dying would not gaurentee their survival, so it is a chance i am not willing to take. some people can do more for the world by dying, i feel i am plenty more useful alive.

if i loose my life not only i lost my life for a cause that was not mine

 
I think that in MANY situations it IS YOUR cause… NOT someone elses. Of course it does depend on the particular situation, but given a situation similar to the one that Ed mentioned it appears as though it everyone#%92s cause… it is for the protection and best interest of the village.
 
I do agree with Espencer to a degree.  For me personally it would depend on my role in my life and with my family. If I was the provider for my children or the caregiver for perhaps the elders in my family, if I held a crucial role to the success of that village then my answer would probably have to be “no”.  If I was not a provider, caregiver or played a crucial role in the survival of my village then the answer for me would be simply “YES”.
 
I do not think this makes me a better person than someone who says “no”, I think it I think it is just type of person I am.  I went in to a “helping” profession because I care about people and their well being. People working in heath care setting risk their lives at  times to help one solitary individual, not a whole village or a country. SO I believe that given a my current profession and my desire to help I would probably be one of the ones to say “yes”.  
 

The funny thing is that defending those who cannot defend themselves doesn't necessarily mean joining the army and going off to fight.  Any and all of you that have stepped in to help an elderly person, or a child or any of countless acts of selflessness have defended the defenseless. 

In reference to the movie, the defenseless was a village of malnourished elderly people and some average aged individuals as well.  Not a sword among the lot.  Their village was being raided by a criminal gang.  Part of what the samurai did in that movie is to teach and employ the villagers to aid in their own cause.  To show them that unity will stand long after division fails.  Exactly what certain parts of our special forces do and have done with great success.

Taking care of one's children is not selfish, quite the contrary, it is a very selfless act.  How many pats on the back or "attagirls" do you get for doing laundry, being the chauffer, wiping noses, packing lunches, using your lunch break to run around town to do errands and then eat at your desk, sign up the kids for soccer, and about a zillion other things that mothers do?  You are already defending the defenseless.  You are providing a safety and a comfort that often times is unacknowledged.  That isn't selfish.  How many times have you been totally exhausted and yet still managed to finish up with those 4 or 5 last things that needed to be done? Or to nurse a sick child?

so maybe the people who win the war are the people who choose not engage in war.

That is a brilliant thought Bradley. 

Any and all of you that have stepped in to help an elderly person, or a child or any of countless acts of selflessness have defended the defenseless.

 
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I completely agree with that. 
 
Also, I think any country at war NEEDS people to stay at home and make sure the country continues to be worth returning to.  Those people who enlist and fight to defend us go through unspeakable horrors - regardless of a person's views on whether the war is a good idea, the tragedies of war are an undisputed fact.  It is necessary, in my view, for people to stay behind and make sure, at the very least, that those soldiers who return can recover in an environment of safety and understanding.  And to use Ed's example, anyone who helps a little old lady to cross the street, a small a gesture as that seems, is spitting in the face of any person, country or organisation that seeks to destroy the will of the people.  No soldier wants to return from war to find his country in literal, or even spiritual, ruins around him.  If that happens, what the hell was he fighting for?
 
Kate

I do agree with Espencer to a degree. For me personally it would depend on my role in my life and with my family. If I was the provider for my children or the caregiver for perhaps the elders in my family, if I held a crucial role to the success of that village then my answer would probably have to be “no”. If I was not a provider, caregiver or played a crucial role in the survival of my village then the answer for me would be simply “YES”.

in medieval times the king went into war with his army. i think the reasoning is that if his army lost their would be nothing for him to come back to anyways, so why not be there as a moral booster for his men. plus if he won, he was seen as the ultimate hero to his countrymen.

Any and all of you that have stepped in to help an elderly person, or a child or any of countless acts of selflessness have defended the defenseless.

i dont necessarily see an act of kindness as defending the defenseless. what are you defending against? the world?

now if you were to stand between a mugger and an elderly person (or even a weak or scared individual) or something like that, then i would agree that you have defended the defenseless.

n medieval times the king went into war with his army. i think the reasoning is that if his army lost their would be nothing for him to come back to anyways, so why not be there as a moral booster for his men. plus if he won, he was seen as the ultimate hero to his countrymen.

good point Bradley, hadn't thought of that...

I usually stay out of politically discussions because I hate arguing anymore but this story really touched me and I believes relates to this thread.  I admit even though I have tried to help domestic violence victims before - based on past experiences I too would probably 'close the blinds' - wish I was more courageous though. 
 
CLOSING THE BLINDS
 
The other day, my nine year old son wanted to know why we were at
war...My husband looked at our son and then looked at me. My husband and I were in the Army during the Gulf War and we would be honored to serve and defend our Country again today. I knew that my husband would give him a good explanation.

My husband thought for a few minutes and then told my son to go stand in
our front living room window. 

He said "Son, stand there and tell me what you see?" 

"I see trees and cars and our neighbor's houses." he replied. 

"OK, now I want you to pretend that our house and our yard is the
United States of America and you are President Bush." 

Our son giggled and said "OK!" 

"Now son, I want you to look out the window and pretend that every
house and yard on this block is a different country" my husband said. 

"OK Dad, I'm pretending." 

"Now I want you to stand there and look out the window and pretend you
see Saddam come out of his house with his wife, he has her by the hair and
is hitting her. You see her bleeding and crying. He hits her in the face,
he throws her on the ground, then he starts to kick her to death. Their children run
out and are afraid to stop him, they are screaming and crying, they are
watching this but do nothing because they are kids and they are afraid of their
father.

You see all of this, son....what do you do?" Dad?" What do you do son?"
"I'd call the police, Dad." OK. Pretend that the police are the United Nations.
They take your call. They listen to what you know and saw but they refuse to
help.

What do you do then son?" Dad.......... but the police are supposed to
help!" My son starts to whine. They don't want to son, because they say that it
is not their place or your place to get involved and that you should stay out
of it," my husband says. But Dad...he killed her!!" my son exclaims. 

"I know he did...but the police tell you to stay out of it. Now I want
you to look out that window and pretend you see our neighbor who you're
pretending is Saddam, turn around and do the same thing to his children." 

"Daddy...he kills them?" 

"Yes son, he does. What do you do?" 

"Well, if the police don't want to help, I will go and ask my next door
neighbor to help me stop him." our son says. 

"Son, our next door neighbor sees what is happening and refuses to get
involved as well. He refuses to open the door and help you stop him,"
my husband says. 

"But Dad, I NEED help!!! I can't stop him by myself!!" 

"WHAT DO YOU DO SON?" Our son starts to cry.

"OK, no one wants to help you, the man across the street saw you ask
for help and saw that no one would help you stop him. He stands taller and puffs
out his chest. Guess what he does next son?" 

"What Daddy?" 

"He walks across the street to the old ladies house and breaks down her
door and drags her out, steals all her stuff and sets her house on fire and
then...he kills her. He turns around and sees you standing in the
window and laughs at you. WHAT DO YOU DO?" Daddy..." WHAT DO YOU DO?" Our son is crying and he looks down and he whispers, I'd close the blinds, Daddy." 

My husband looks at our son with tears in his eyes and asks him. 

"Why?" 

"Because Daddy.....the police are supposed to help people who needs
them.and they won't help.... You always say that neighbors are supposed to HELP
neighbors, but they won't help either...they won't help me stop him...I'm afraid....I
can't do it by myself Daddy! .....I can't look out my window and just
watch  him do all these terrible things and...and.....do nothing...so....I'm
just going to close the blinds.... so I can't see what he's doing........and
I'm going to pretend that it is not happening." 

I start to cry. My husband looks at our nine year old son standing in
the window, looking pitiful and ashamed at his answers to my husband's
questions and he says... "Son"
"Yes, Daddy."
"Open the blinds because that man.... he's at your front door... "WHAT DO YOU DO?" 

My son looks at his father, anger and defiance in his eyes. He balls up
his tiny fists and looks his father square in the eyes, without hesitation
he says:
"I DEFEND MY FAMILY DAD!! I'M NOT GONNA LET HIM HURT MOMMY OR MY SISTER, DAD!!! I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM, DAD, I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM!!!!!" 

I see a tear roll down my husband's cheek and he grabs our son to his
chest and hugs him tight, and says... "It's too late to fight him, he's too
strong and he' s already at YOUR front door son.....you should have stopped
him BEFORE he killed his wife, and his children and the old lady across the way. 

You have to do what's right, even if you have to do it alone, before
it's too late." my husband whispers. THAT scenario I just gave you is WHY we are
at war with Iraq. When good men stand by and let evil happen, Son, THAT is
because they believe the greatest atrocities in the world won't affect them.
 "YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!"
 
Yes, its a simple story and life is a lot more complicated but sometimes it really is just this simple.