While we're on the topic of religion...

ORIGINAL: g33

From [linkhttp://www.truthsaves.org]www.truthsaves.org[/link]:

Do You Know Him?Many people claim the title "Christian." Yet many of the same people ignore what Jesus tells us in the Bible. The Bible teaches about true Christianity; about becoming a disciple of Jesus.

First, we must believe. [linkhttp://truthsaves.org/articles/baptism.shtml#vs]Read these verses.[/link] The Bible plainly sets forth belief in Jesus as the requirement for eternal life. Within the context of Scripture, we understand that belief requires action. We believe, we give up sin, and we seek to love God with our entire being.

[blockquote]"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,'shall enter the the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'"
Matthew 7:21-22 (NKJ) [/blockquote]
You see? Belief requires action. Jesus says those that will enter heaven are the ones who do the Father's will. See what Scripture says about loving God.

[blockquote]"Teacher, what is the great commandment in the law?" Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment."
Matthew 22:36-38 (NKJ) [/blockquote]
          "...whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple." 
         Luke 14:25-28, 33 (NKJ)

John 8:51 quotes Jesus as saying,

[blockquote]"Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death."
John 8:51 (NKJ) [/blockquote]
We who trust in Jesus need have no fear of death. What an awesome benefit!

Second, we experience the inexpressible joy resulting from a personal relationship with the God of the universe. We discover true freedom. We discover success. We find happiness. We throw off the shackles of depression, addiction, sorrow, fear, loneliness – in short, we discover that we're no longer in bondage.

[blockquote]"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
John 8:32 (NKJ)
But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:22-2 (NKJ) [/blockquote]

[blockquote]. . . that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; that you may love the LORD your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days…
Deuteronomy 30:19-20 (NKJ) [/blockquote]

 
I am Catholic, the Muslims have the Coran and i'm sure they can take it out and write the same things talking about Allah, who is right? them because the Coran says it? or you because the Bible says it?
 
I know that the Bible says that i should love, forgive and accept all my brothers ans siters so thats what i rather to do, i accept them regardless what they believe in, because i put myself in their place, if someone asks me to believe in Allah because the Coran says you should i would say no thanks, who am i to ask them to do the same?
 
In Mexico we had a president that once said "the respect for someones else's rights means peace"

Everyone has their own journey.  I had mine, lessons I had to learn, etc. and when I could no longer ignore God's call to my heart...when I listened...Jesus was there.  Yes, I believe loving our brothers and sisters no matter what they believe, is important for us to do.  And yet, as Christians God calls us to speak about our love for Him.  If in my sharing about what Christ has done for me, it causes someone to think about their life and eventually accept Christ, that is my purpose.  Sharing about Christ and "shoving my beliefs down someone's throat" are two different things. 

Unlike other religions, including Islam which you mention in your post, Christianity offers probably the easiest possible path.  There is nothing to "do" in Christianity.  All that God asks of us is for us to believe in Jesus and the debt that He paid for us on the cross.  Jesus is the Son - God in human form - who had to come as a perfect, sinless sacrifice to pay the debts of humanity such that we would all have a way to be with God after our death. 

God is holy and perfect, and in accordance with His holiness and perfectness, cannot be with anything that is evil or "unclean".  We have sinned on this earth. Each and every one of us.  Stealing a pencil from your office is just as heinous to God as Hitler's mass murder of six million people.  A sin is a sin.  So God offered Himself up as a sacrifice to pay for our sins, and so as long as we accept His gift to us, our sins are washed away.  God welcomes us back unto Himself with open arms.  Jesus's gift ransomed our hearts from the satanic hold on us that has been our legacy since the snake deceived Eve in the garden. 

So the other religions often have someplace that you have to "get" to.  Buddhism has the eightfold path.  Judaism and many other religions have good deeds that one has to do, that "moral" path.  The ten commandments (I know I've broken nearly all of them, how about you?)  And yet while we walk these paths, we still do hurtful things on this earth.  We say unloving things to people.  We envy.  We hate.  It's our "human" nature.  All God asks of us is that we believe in Jesus.  And once we do, He sets us on a path to heal our wounds and remake our hearts into that which was His original intention - that is the work of the Holy Spirit. 

So for me, it's not just that I believe in a "God".  God offered us a pathway to Him through Jesus Christ.  I can believe that there's a God all I want to in this world, and I have all my life.  And yet I never truly found Him, until I found Christ. 

Christianity offers probably the easiest possible path. There is nothing to "do" in Christianity.

See, that's the part I don't like. I don't think a moral structure (which is what religion provides to the vast majority of people) should ever be "easy." I don't think people should get a free pass if they make the same mistakes over and over again, just because they "accept" Jesus. I think that the people, religious or otherwise, who work hard at being moral every day should be valued and rewarded above those who don't bother, but who "accept" Jesus.


I just find it hard to understand a religion that says "you can give 90% of what you have to charity, and save lives, and teach children, and rescue animals, and volunteer, and give blood--but if you don't accept Jesus, you're damned to an eternity of hellfire."
I honestly don't understand how any just deity could possibly allow that.

ORIGINAL: LittleMousling

Christianity offers probably the easiest possible path. There is nothing to "do" in Christianity.

See, that's the part I don't like. I don't think a moral structure (which is what religion provides to the vast majority of people) should ever be "easy." I don't think people should get a free pass if they make the same mistakes over and over again, just because they "accept" Jesus. I think that the people, religious or otherwise, who work hard at being moral every day should be valued and rewarded above those who don't bother, but who "accept" Jesus.


I just find it hard to understand a religion that says "you can give 90% of what you have to charity, and save lives, and teach children, and rescue animals, and volunteer, and give blood--but if you don't accept Jesus, you're damned to an eternity of hellfire."
I honestly don't understand how any just deity could possibly allow that.

Because, no matter how good you can be it is not good enough. No one is perfect. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. No matter how small the sin, it is still a sin.

But, you don't get a 'free pass' as you say.  Whatever a man sows, that he shall also reap.  If I disregard God's rules then I will reap the punishments.

'But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these
commands,

15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out
all my commands and so violate my covenant,

16 then I will do this to you: I will bring upon you sudden terror,
wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and drain away your
life. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it.

17 I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your
enemies; those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when
no one is pursuing you.
(it goes on for about 30 more verses)

And he is speaking to his chosen people when he says that. In the new testament the christians are his chosen people, but as a father chastizes his children, so does God when we disobey him.

mollymoo, I wasn't trying to give you "bad feedback." Asking why you think a certain way isn't necessarily an attack. I was just curious as to your reasoning.
 
Because your previous post was on the topic of Christ & salvation, I assumed you were speaking from some kind of Biblical knowledge, not just things you had heard or seen on tv.  No matter what we each believe about Heaven, no one really knows until they get there, so I don't see a point in arguing about it.
 
Where did I read that Jesus would reject some? g33 the verse I was thinking about posted below. Matthew 7:21-22.

ORIGINAL: TexasDaisy

mollymoo, I wasn't trying to give you "bad feedback." Asking why you think a certain way isn't necessarily an attack. I was just curious as to your reasoning.

Because your previous post was on the topic of Christ & salvation, I assumed you were speaking from some kind of Biblical knowledge, not just things you had heard or seen on tv.  No matter what we each believe about Heaven, no one really knows until they get there, so I don't see a point in arguing about it.

Where did I read that Jesus would reject some? g33 the verse I was thinking about posted below. Matthew 7:21-22.

And to clarify, what Jesus is saying in that verse means that he will reject those who only profess a belief with their lips, when in their lives they have done nothing to show evidence of the will of God.  It is not enough to just "say" you believe in Christ.  He must reside in your heart!

Remember, Satan believes in Jesus Christ also.  That does not mean that he is going to heaven!  He has set himself against God and is the very reason that there is pain in our world.  This world is not what we were meant to live in! 


Little Mousling: the transforming power of the Holy Spirit works within us to bring about God's will in our lives, once we submit to Jesus, repent of our nature, and worship Him.  To a non-believer, believe me I understand how foreign and incredulous this sounds!  I argued against Christ for more than 10 years of my life.  All that I can say is that at the moment I accepted Christ, I felt a power descend upon me unlike I have never encountered before, and it is that power that I feel in my heart directing me toward carrying out God's will in the world.  I have become far more compassionate, loving, committed, and connected than I ever would have been had I not accepted Christ.  Believing in Jesus isn't the "free pass" that it is cracked up to be.  It is a hard road, a road that involves dying to our fleshy desires as we take hold of a promise that is greater than anything this world can provide.  It involves God walking us through wounds in our lives in order to restore us to whole and complete beauty, such that we can carry out what He has ordained us to be as His chosen people on this planet.   
 
And edited to add:  While God loves ALL of us equally as His created children, He is not a tolerant God.  God has remained consistent about what His will is throughout the bible.  He loves us so much that he came in human form to die for all of us, such that we might all be spared and united with Him in heaven.  All God wants from us, is to be with us!  As created beings, we are all parts of God and ultimately it is His greatest wish and desire to have us back with him:
 
Matthew 23:27: How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
 
 

ORIGINAL: TexasDaisy

ORIGINAL: ron2

My favorite quote comes from a chukchi proverb. The chukchi had the chuckchi dog, aka the Siberian Husky.

How you treat your dogs determines if you get into heaven. If you have treated your dogs well, they await to pull your sled into heaven.

I've never heard that quote before, but it's a really neat thought...

I'm a Christian (Church of Christ--NOT of Later Day Saints & not very well known in the North, I've heard).  When I used to ask as a child, my mother told me that dogs have no souls & just disappear or are reincarnated into other dogs after they die. In a way, it makes sense from a Christian point of view. If all animals had souls equal to humans, then we should all be vegitarians. Killing animals for food would be equal to murder. The Hebrews were ordered to sacrafice animals & had a list of animals ok'ed to be eaten, yet murder of humans was strictly punished. It just wouldn't make sense for animals to be equal to humans in that framework. 

That being said, I can only hope that somehow dogs will be in Heaven. Surely a God who created some many living things & ensured their survival as a species would care about them a great deal. Of course, I can't speculate on something I have no direct knowledge of (i.e. heaven and admission policies). Though we have a Catholic church in town that, as a fundraiser, will sprinkle & pray for your pet, so who knows! Lol.

 
To get this thread a little bit back on track (I'm guilty!)  I thought I would address this:
 
It makes logical sense to me that 1) God created the universe and everything in it and 2) he cares about each and every one of His creations.  Therefore, God would not create anything that is meant to just "disappear" as God's creations are still a part of Him.  Throughout the bible, God is always trying to reach us, to gather us back unto himself.  So why are animals any less a part of God than we are? 
 
The answer is that they are not.  However, animals (unlike humans) did not sin against God and thus are not subject to the curse by the fall of man.  Animals have pure souls.  We see evidence of this every day.  I don't see humpback whales warring against other whale species.  There is peace and harmony among the members of the animal kingdom.  Sure they kill to eat and to defend, but their motives are from a pure place. 
 
That said, that does not mean that God puts animals as "equals" to humans.  God designed humans in His own image.  We have the ability to have a relationship with God in a way that animals cannot, because God gave us the capacity to manipulate our world. 
 
Matthew 6:26 - Look at the birds in the sky; they do not sow or reap, they gather nothing into barns, yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are not you more important than they?
 

Anyone who has ever had a heart dog, and has looked into that dog's eyes, can see that dogs have souls.

I find it amusing that the "Christians" are now fighting among themselves. [8D]

God has always spoken to me through nature, through animals, both wild and domesticated. I know that we are all made of the same stuff and that the same forces hold us all, indeed, hold the entire Universe together. We are all one.

I suspect that being reunited with our loved ones, ALL our loved ones, is only one small step toward our further journeys.

I think there are varying flavors of religion because there are people who need different helps along the way.

Every person needs to find their own good path. There are lots of good paths, just exactly the right amount! Each of us has one.[]

ORIGINAL: jeano

I find it amusing that the "Christians" are now fighting among themselves. [8D]

 
Who's fighting?  I saw it as folks just asking some questions.  [8|][]

quote:
 The Bible mentions several times that many will claim to know Jesus, but He will reject them.
 
I took this sentence wrong. I thought you were saying that true christians were rejected by Jesus. I now see that you were talking about the people who said they were christians but really were not. My son has my bible right now so I couldn`t look it up.
 
quote:
Because your previous post was on the topic of Christ & salvation, I assumed you were speaking from some kind of Biblical knowledge, not just things you had heard or seen on tv.
 
things that I have heard - Like in church, bible study, religious cassette tapes
 
things that I have seen on tv - There are great religious shows on tv, dvds,vcr tapes
 
Are these not forms of Biblical knowledge also.

ORIGINAL: jeano

Anyone who has ever had a heart dog, and has looked into that dog's eyes, can see that dogs have souls.

I find it amusing that the "Christians" are now fighting among themselves. [8D]

God has always spoken to me through nature, through animals, both wild and domesticated. I know that we are all made of the same stuff and that the same forces hold us all, indeed, hold the entire Universe together. We are all one.

I suspect that being reunited with our loved ones, ALL our loved ones, is only one small step toward our further journeys.

I think there are varying flavors of religion because there are people who need different helps along the way.

Every person needs to find their own good path. There are lots of good paths, just exactly the right amount! Each of us has one.[]

Very well said.  
As for me, I am willing to try to do good, and let my Creator decide if I have the right to be in the spirit world, without proseletyzing to others. 

As g33 said, it wasn't fighting, just asking questions. There are as many different ideas on Christianity as there are other religions in the world, but it's more "socially acceptable" for us to question each other's reasoning than to question the beliefs of non-Christians. I doubt anyone is going to completely change religions due to a post on a dog forum so think of it more as exploring and learning about different people than "proseletyzing" persay. []

ORIGINAL: g33

I've enjoyed reading this thread. 

Yes, I am saddened by the number of hurtful things that Christians have said to unbelievers in what I believe is a pretty feeble attempt at "witnessing" about Christ.  I really think that 90% of the people who call themselves Christian on this earth, do not truly "get it".  Jesus was not about making others wrong in order to gain their belief.  Jesus' message were about loving eachother.  Yes, Jesus did rebuke people who did things that were against God's will and God's word.  Jesus became angry (at the money changers in the temple, for example, and also at the hypocrisy of the Pharisees) - but this was not an anger that comes from a hateful place.  It was a "righteous anger" that offered salvation, grace, redemption, and welcome.  Jesus associated with people whom the major religion at the time deemed totally undesirable: whores, tax collectors, lepers - people whom society wanted nothing to do with.  This is a beautiful example of the love of God, and shows God's commitment that no matter what any of us do on this earth, He will never forget about us, stop caring about what happens to us, or stop loving us.

I've taken a long road in my life to reach Jesus.  I was born in an unchurched home although my Mother, out of some odd sense of "duty", took me to church occasionally.  I didn't know really what anything was about and I didn't receive any biblical education. When I went to college, I nearly became a Bah'ai.  Then I followed the Lakota (Sioux) path for several years.  During that time I met some judgmental Christians, people who pitied me for my "ultimate destination".  Yes, they served to push me away from Christianity. 

What turned the tide for me was I encountered a group of Christians who were patient with all my arguing and anger, and just explained who Jesus was and what he was about.  I began to realize that Jesus Christ really has nothing to do with "organized Religion" as we know it today.  One of my favorite sayings is: Don't believe in Religion, just read what He said!  And I realized that all of the murders, exterminations (especially of the Native Americans, which was very painful for me personally because of my ties to that community), crusades etc. done in His name probably made God cry.  God is not about murder and death to prove His point that we are all, ALL worthy of His love because He died for each and every one of us.  No one of us is better than anyone else and we all have our burdens and struggles in this world.  It is a true Christian who wears these struggles close to his/her heart and is unafraid to share his/her humanity with unbelievers.  We're followers of Christ - that does not mean we have everything all together in our lives.  Yet because we have Christ, we have grace and the promise of His presence with us to heal our wounds and allow us to be that which He created us to be.  And that is something powerful!

 
Thanks for sharing your Faith Journey!  I rarely come to this part of the forum, but am glad I did today.
Alot of the things said here has sadden me, how people flippantly talk about heaven and hell, but, I guess one day we will all know for sure.  I am thankful that I have assurance as to where my destiny lies.
I think everyone on this site is awesome, and you all have helped me out alot on my doggie questions etc.
 
Since God created all things, I know He cares for everything.  I sure hope my Zoe will be in heaven when I get there, unless she gets there first.  But really, once we are there, our focus will be on worshiping God, we won't notice anything else!
 
Blessings,
Sweetbon

Those of us who talk about our experience of Christ, our feelings about animals in heaven based upon what the bible said, are doing something that we Christians call "witnessing".  It is much different than "proselytizing".  []

Just to clarify: 

pros·e·lyt·ize    ronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pros-uh-li-tahyz]
–verb (used with object), verb (used without object), -ized, -iz·ing.
to convert or attempt to convert as a proselyte; recruit.

 
 
 
wit·ness    –verb (used without object)
5.to bear witness; testify; give or afford evidence. –noun    I've really enjoyed this thread.  It's been great to discuss such a wonderful topic without anger present!