Dog Community

Problem kids(super long)

cyclefiend2000

Posted : 11/20/2006 11:29:11 AM

Ok, this may be a little long…..

My wife is a bit older than me and she has two sons by a previous husband. They are both in their early 20's. The older son has nothing to do with us. Which is no big deal, because he has major problems, but that is another story. The younger son is the problem I/we are having to deal with right now.

A few years ago, he was living with his dad in Colorado. The dad is remarried and has kids with his new wife. Once the younger son (Chris) graduated from high school, the dad kicked him out (various reasons given by both sides and we aren't sure who to believe). Chris started living with his girlfriend (at her dad's house). The girlfriend's dad said if they were going to be living together they had to get married. We tried at that point to get Chris to move in with us (in South Carolina) before he married this girl. He wouldn't so they got married. Less than a year goes by, and the girlfriend now wife's(Nikki) dad tells them they have to find a new place to live. So they call us.

We take them in, but with the understanding that they are to find jobs and once they are on their feet they need to get their own place. It soon becomes apparent that 1) Nikki is pregnant and knew she was before they left Colorado; 2) they don't want to find jobs or work; and 3) they are pretty much mooching deadbeats. Through great will and force, my wife and I get them both full time jobs (not great jobs, but paying jobs nonetheless). We make them start saving for a car (no real public transportation here). After a few months they have about $1,500 for a car, and they find one they can afford. So we make them start paying us rent. Not much, but enough that they have some incentive to look for their own place.

They find their own place and within 6 months Nikki tells us that she is leaving Chris and going to live with her Mom in Kansas. She is taking their son too by the way. The day she leaves Chris has another girl move in with him (Sam). We tell Chris he is making a huge mistake, but he doesn't listen. Over the next few months, he gets tired of Sam and moves on to girl #3 (Tabby). Sam is still living in Chris's apartment and decides to take all his stuff while he is over at Tabby's house. Good riddance, but we are pissed that he let this happen. In the meantime, Chris not only looses his job, but looses the car too.

He moves in with Tabby, and we don't hear from him for about 8-9 months. Finally, he comes by wanting to move back in with us. This is December of '05. We put strict rules on him and make him find a new job. We are also trying to get him to send Nikki money to help out with their son, but he doesn't. He still isn't divorced from Nikki. He stays with us for awhile, but eventually moves in with Tabby. We don't hear from him from Feb. of '06 until Aug. Then he calls to tell us that he and Tabby have a son, and they are at the hospital.

We go to see them, and don't hear anything from either one until this past Saturday night. Tabby calls to tell us she is kicking Chris out and wants to know if we will take him in. Of course the wife says yes, and now he is at our house. No job to speak of, no car, and now two kids by two different women.

I guess my questions are, 1) how do you make rules for a grown up that have consequences; 2) what is my best course of action for getting him another job and out of our house for good; or 3) do you think it is a lost cause and I should give my wife 2 choices, either he goes or I go?

Thanks for any input (sorry it is so long).
---Bradley

loveukaykay

Posted : 11/20/2006 11:46:53 AM

I think in the other thread about marriages you said this was causing a lot of strife between you and your wife. If thats the case, I really think the last option is the only one you have.

Its not easy for a mother to give up on a son like that (not that I have one, but my aunt and cousin are the same way). I think it has been proven with all those chances that nothing is going to get the guy on the right track. As long as you all take him in, he has no reason to. If you dont take him, hell find a girl and still has no reason to grow up and become a man who can take care of himself. Once he has NO ONE to go to, then he may make some changes, but some people dont even do it then. Its a hard and sad situation but I think the best thing you all can do for him is to stop helping him.

That may be a lot harder for your wife than you and its something the two of you need to talk about and be clear with each other on. And you need to decide if this were to continue for the rest of your life would you be happier sticking it out or moving on.

rwbeagles

Posted : 11/20/2006 11:47:13 AM

Bradley,

Have you talked with your wife about what his "model' for this behavior might be....or asked her to consider counselling for herself and her son together? It sounds like this man has some bad models in his past or some unresolved things he thinks he can avoid by simply jumping around from woman to woman or place to place. He considers his Mom the rock or safety net and she is enabling his behavior as well.

I think that he should be allowed to stay indefinitely PROVIDING it is JUST him...no women...and he is in a weekly counselling program. I think responsiblity and a job would come naturally after he figures out his issues and how to resolve them and grow up.

I would not go the ultimatum route because if I had to choose between my child or my mate it'd be no contest....unless you are tired enough to want out, and be happy with losing her then I wouldn't offer it. Alternately if both refuse counselling I think you'd benefit from it as you'd have a place to bounce your feelings on the matter around with privacy and some helpful input back for you.

rwbeagles

Posted : 11/20/2006 11:56:16 AM

The ultimatum has always, IMO, seemed the ultimate expression of passive aggressive behavior. It's not up to someone else to dictate the course your life will take...it is up to you. Ultimatums are not empowering...they remove all power from you and put it into the other person's hands.

They then, have the power to make you miserable either way....because you would be unhappy leaving AND staying it seems to me.

The power is yours to make good choices for yourself and if that inlcudes leaving then so be it...but it was YOUR choice to do so, not someone else's.

sillysally

Posted : 11/20/2006 12:04:55 PM

I don't think you can make a mother choose between you and her child, and that would be how it would feel to her.

I love my stepdad dearly, as he does me, but at the end of the day, I was still my mother's child and if she wanted something for me that he didn't, she got it one way or another.

Nothing can happen unless your wife is on board. I think that some sort of family therapy might be a good idea as well.

cyclefiend2000

Posted : 11/20/2006 12:07:30 PM

his dad was his only male role model. from what i understand from my wife, chris is acting exactly like his dad. i never met his dad, so i have no idea what he is like.

i dont necessarily want to leave my wife, but this situation is becoming pretty unbearable. i will mention counselling to her and see how she feels about it.

probe1957

Posted : 11/20/2006 12:08:28 PM

Bradley, I have a very simliar situation with my stepson. He is a 29 year old, absolutely worthless, POS. His idea of a job is finding a woman with a job and a house who will take him in. That particular quality is admirable, I know, but other than that, he is problematic.

I don't think it is a good idea to give your wife an ultimatum wherein you force her to choose between you and her son, unless you are prepared to lose. If you are prepared to accept the possiblity that she will choose her son over you, then do what you think is best. However, maybe there are some things that can be done before you start down that road.

Just between us, the kid is useless. You aren't going to fix him. If he is useless at 20 something he will be useless at 40 something, he will just have more experience at it. The biggest challenge you have, IMO, is convincing his mother of that. Mothers, for some reason, are less willing than fathers to accept the fact that their kids will never amount to anything and that you are better off having nothing to do with them. This, I believe, has to do with women thinking more emotionally and men thinking more logically.

First, I think you and your wife have to agree on how you are going to handle this situation. The fact that she let the worthless POS move back into the house without your approval is concerning and certainly doesn't bode well for you issuing her an ultimatum.

There has to be an end game here. There need to be deadlines. For example, the kid must have a regular, 40 hour job, within 30 days. He must have his own place within 90 days. If he doesn't, he can live under bridge or at a shelter. Whatever you guys do, it is critically important that both you and your wife agree with the plan and that you both stick by it. Your wife is enabling this boy to do as he pleases with no real consequences.

rwbeagles

Posted : 11/20/2006 12:10:11 PM

Bradley even if JUST you and she go I think it'd help so much.

She might then come to see how she is putting up with his behavior like she perhaps did in the past with his father..and help her see what a good choice she made in YOU as well! []

fuzzy_dogs_mom

Posted : 11/20/2006 12:14:43 PM

If it's any consolation, Bradley, I have a son who has always been a bit of an irresponsible flake also. And believe me, it isn't always "lack of good modeling." Some people are just that way. But ... he's finally starting to pull it together. Good job, just got into his first house, making an effort to become a more responsible parent to the 13 year old, etc. He'll be 36 in March *sigh*. Twenty is still very young, but he needs to remember that should either (or both) of those young ladies ever need to go on public asssistance, the *powers that be* WILL come after his arse for child support. Having to support two kids will wake him up in a hurry, if nothing else does.

Joyce

cakana

Posted : 11/20/2006 12:18:46 PM

I think Gina probably speaks from the mind (and heart) of a mother, so her advice is probably more important in the scheme of things than anything I could say. Never one to pass up an opportunity to voice my opinion tho [

], I'll say that I would agree to this on the condition that a) he find a job immediately (assisting him with this is fine, but not finding it for him); b) he has 3, 5, or ? months (whatever is reasonble) to find his own place and live independently. I don't have children so I speak from a different voice of experience. When I moved out at 17, my dad said "well, I hope it works out for you, but if it doesn't, don't think you can move back home". I always wondered if he'd have let me if things had gotten really bad, but I made sure they didn't because I didn't see it as an option, and for that I'm grateful.

cyclefiend2000

Posted : 11/20/2006 12:19:16 PM

i agree billy. i think he is a lost cause. at least he is, unless he somehow miraculously turns his life around.

as far as the ultimatum, i pretty much know what the choice would be. if i get to that point, i am just leaving.

i have pushed for the regular job in the past. he will get a job, but it will be some half-a$$ job. right now he is working semi-part time at waffle house. nothing against people who work at waffle house, but he doesnt make the kind of money he needs to support a family and doesnt have set hours each week. i tried to get him on as a labor hand at the construction company i work for, but the wife thinks it would be too hard for him. i think the best thing that could happen is if he got a job working a trade (electrician, plumber, carpenter, etc). he would have set hours, set pay, learn something that he could use for the rest of his life, and have the possibility of becoming a useful member of society. instead of being a useless pile of human flesh.

cyclefiend2000

Posted : 11/20/2006 12:24:38 PM

ORIGINAL: fuzzy_dogs_mom

but he needs to remember that should either (or both) of those young ladies ever need to go on public asssistance, the *powers that be* WILL come after his arse for child support. Having to support two kids will wake him up in a hurry, if nothing else does.

Joyce

his wife and first son are on government assistance. they have been trying to track him down for a while, but we didnt know where he was living or their phone number or anything.

i was thinking about calling his wife and telling her that he is living with us now, and see if that helps her at all. i know that is pretty passive-aggressive, but he needs to step up and help support both his kids or at least be made to.

fuzzy_dogs_mom

Posted : 11/20/2006 12:44:02 PM

I agree, Bradley. He definitely needs to step up and start helping with his kids. And Billy, I don't really believe that if someone is useless at 20 they'll necessarily be useless at 40. A 20 year old isn't that far removed from a high school senior, and boys mature more slowly than girls - at least that's what I've always heard. Everyone matures at their own rate and who knows? In 10 years or so he could be a pretty solid stand-up sort of guy.

Joyce

loveukaykay

Posted : 11/20/2006 12:53:01 PM

I know ultimatums are not good, and I know what her choice would be too... but you have to think the other options through based on the past. Okay so you and your wife agree to take him in on strict conditions and all that good stuff. Well if he doesnt follow them, then what. She wont kick him out now, she probably wont then. Or he leaves again instead of following your rules only to show up again at a later date.

The whole lets try it but with rules things deosnt really work IMO because he IS her son and he IS her choice. YOU have to decide if you are prepared to deal with this for however much longer it will go on because it will whether he follows the rules the two of you make for him or not.

probe1957

Posted : 11/20/2006 12:59:10 PM

I do think you should tell his wife how to contact him, Brad, AND I think you should tell the boy that you are going to do that. Maybe being faced with a child support obligation will be enough to get him to disappear again.