Joel kicked out... I do not agree with this.

Thank you Leslie.  It was his reaction that bothered me.  That WE were over reacting and that WE needed to lighten up.  I get a bit hot under the collar when ANYone tries to invalidate my feelings.  Right or wrong, my feelings are my feelings and I'm entitled to them and I really get angry when someone tries to tell me that my feelings just flat don't matter or worse, are wrong.  I feel what I feel....how dare anyone try to say that what I feel is invalid???
 
I think that most of us come to idog to learn and as we learn, we share.  I've certainly had my share of being flamed and jumped on.  And there was even ONE poster who seemed to have as their own personal agenda making me look stoopid.  Truely tho, if you go to the old forum and do a search for Joels post, he didn't seem to either contribute or learn.  With the mans dying breath he'll likely be defending the right of doodle breeders to continue to create more mutts.  Nothing that any of us said to him on the subject ever sunk in.
 
And Joels brand of humor, constantly being inserted in serious threads got a bit annoying.  Yep, there have been times in threads that are really getting heated and ugly that I've thrown in my Red Sox rears comments....and most often someone ELSE would take the hint and with a group effort we could diffuse the ugliness in a thread.  But Joel didn't attempt to turn an ugly situation around, he just popped in with some off the wall comment or joke in places that were NOT ugly, but a very serious conversation going on.  All that said, yes, I could just ignore a lot of that silliness.  And no, I didn't make it my mission in life to get rid of Joel as some have done.  To me Joel was kind of like an annoying knat, not a snake in the grass waiting to strike the unsuspecting.  Knats I can live with, regardless of how silly and foolish they get. However, when they start saying that other peoples feelings are stupid, meaningless or invalid, then I have to walk away or get myself in trouble.
 
I'm sorry to say this, because I certainly don't dislike Joel, but, he was suspended twice for his misbehavior and still didn't learn what is and is not acceptable here, so being banned was nothing but his own doing.  The same can be said for many who have been banned.  You reap what you sow.

I ignored Joel for the most part until his last thread about the depression. 
 
Yes, we all come here to learn and maybe he did learn something about dogs.  Where he missed the boat was recognizing when "enough was enough".
 
At least now I don't have to try to figure out where the heck the block/ignore feature is!

I'm going to say this, not as a member *here* but simply because I moderate another board and have for many years.  *I* dont ban anyone, that is always the decision of the board owners, and I would assume it would be the same here - it's serious and it always has some repercussions.
 
BUT, that being said, I'll also say the following.  And I had very little discourse with Joel and this isn't "about" him - I just want to explain something about messageboards.
 
There are those who post, and those who don't.  "lurkers" they tend to be called, but honestly for every person who does post there are sometimes 2-3 and sometimes 4-5 who just 'read' and never post.  So any time a person posts, there are more than just those who 'post' who are involved, and there is a pretty serious responsbility that goes in protecting what goes on.  Not only do you have to monitor the conversation in each thread, but it's up to the members generally to make sure people aren't misled, and that good information is getting out.  Because there's a danger there -- that someone will read "something they saw on a dog messageboard" and then they'll go off and treat that as gospel and as a basis for whatever they'll do as a result. 
 
That means the person who reads about anything from ignoring symptoms of a potential serious illness (which is why the first thing out of most folk's fingers is "that dog needs to go to the vet even if you have to borrow the money") to the sanctity of human life.  So someone who even laughingly (and who CAN see them laugh online??) suggests violence or to someone or who treats anything from spouse abuse, to mental illness, inappropriate humor about such stuff  or how you treat your dog  -- irresponsible behavior has to be dealt with. 
 
But typically when there is ugliness on a board that 'shows' there's usually ugliness that goes on behind the scenes as well -- and that's a shame.
 
I have to reiterate -- I'm not talking about Joel here -- I'm talking about moderating in general.  I've seen it and I've seen worse.  I've seen people helped by the support they got from a dog messageboard, and I've seen people seriously hurt.  I've seen people become suicidal over how they were treated.  I've seen teens go wrong and I've seen teens HELPED by the support they got. 
 
So altho you may think things unfair, please realize there's an ultimate responsibility that dog.com has here.  So please just trust their judgment and don't think you have 'all the story' in what you may have seen or not seen.  I wouldn't be HERE if I didn't think they handled the board well.  I know it's too darned tough to call those kinds of shots.  I hope this helped explain -- I'm rushing to work so I can't labor over this point like I would like to re-write this 100 times.  No disrespect meant to anyone -- just trying to 'splain.
 

Personally, I didn't find him funny at all. There are others here that joke but they have no intention of hurting others. He always wanted the attention revolving around him no matter the cost of other peoples feelings.
I also agree that he has never posted anything of intelligence when it came to dog issues. I may not know as much as alot of the people on here but thanks to them I am learning.

Lena, Very well said.  I agree 100%. 

ORIGINAL: lena

I also agree that he has never posted anything of intelligence when it came to dog issues. I may not know as much as alot of the people on here but thanks to them I am learning.

 
What a shame that a person who didn#%92t contribute anything useful to dog ownership was able to run off at least two (one directly, one indirectly) very important people that did contribute valuable information.

Great post Callie!  The sharing of non-dog personal stuff, humor, etc., is great.  It brings us closer together and provides a support system for those who need it at various times.  But when it comes down to it...this IS a dog board.  And it has long been known and respected for the depth of information here.  That's what 99.9999% of the posters/lurkers are here for...to discuss/read about dog issues.  You do a google search on something dog related and more than likely several high ranking hits will link back to this board.  It's one thing when threads on a dog issue set off a big debate.  But when non-dog threads or interjection of superfluous stuff into dog related threads throws the board into turmoil, then that's just wrong.  And when a person (any person) keeps pushing the issue when they know (or should know) that they are causing grief or stirring the pot, then they obviously don't have the best interests of the board, it's members, and by extension dogs in general at heart.  And Lena, I agree 100% with what you said too.    

I must say that I pretty much ignored most of joel's rants, but it's important to remember that one does not have to be uttering profanity to be obnoxious, rude, or chauvinistic.  Searing sarcasm or suggestions of violence are serious in the way that Callie has suggested, and should not be taken lightly.  That said, I do feel that joel may have more serious issues, some of which he alluded to.  I'm not sorry he's off the board, since I don't enjoy that kind of discourse, but I hope that he gets the help and understanding he needs on a more personal level, so that he doesn't need to resort to the kind of "humor" that offends people, and so that he can live a serene and enjoyable life.  I feek badly that he feels he has to react to others the way he does.

Wow. I guess I am much more tolerant a person than I ever would have guessed. I just don't see why people get so worked up over Joel--he made things a bit more interesting. In addition, I do not think that half the people would have half the problems with him if he didn't defend doodles, and I'm not sure if that's really right. I'll defend my dog to the living end, whether others like it or not.

There have been people on this board who I would have been happy to strangle through the computer numorous times, but I never felt the need to make a federal case over it. In the end, I just had to be adult about it and realize that this is the INTERNET, and that sometimes in life there are going to be people that bother me, and I just have to let it be.

I think that everyone could do with a healthy dose of perspective.....

Hold on a sec.  Joel specifically said he wanted imput from people who are on anti-depressants....wanted to know if those of us who are were offended.  I told him that I found it a bit offensive and he came back at me with my need to lighten up, that I was over reacting, etc.  What completely upset me was Joel's attitude that MY feelings or those of the others just FLAT DID NOT MATTER.  We needed to lighten up, we needed to stop over reacting.  Whether HE liked what we were feeling or not, that's what WE were feeling, and no one has a right to try to invalidate ANYONE'S feelings.
 
However, I walked away from the thread.  I did NOT continue to post because I was getting majorly PO'd over the attitude that no one elses feelings counted.  I think that qualifies as acting like an adult.
 
I don't give a rodents rear end what kind of dog Joel has....I do have a problem with him pushing the idea on others that it is absolutely fine to breed for mixes.  There are many, many lurkers here who NEVER post and its wrong to give those folks the idea that it's ok to make some cute puppies of their own.  There are just far too many pups dying in shelters each and every day.

Actually, many of the doodle thread were not started by Joel. I really, really hope that he was not banned because of his beliefs on doodles.

There are many, many members on here (I didn't mean you specifically Glenda) that freak out if Joel so much as sneezes in the wrong direction.

I have been flat out called stupid on this board and I haven't reacted as strongly as many have to Joels posts that were NOT directed at them specifically.

Rather than simply ignoring his posts, I would suggest that there were many members who sought them out simply for a chance to argue with him, then they would freak out because he *gasp* argued back.

I guess I didn't read the rule that said "No Insensitiveity."

I also think that there is a certain amount of resentment towards him as some members blame him for other members leaving, which I also think is wrong.

I followed most of the Joel threads but never posted because it quickly became evident that Joel was an irritant.  His posts demonstrated how disinterested he was in listening and respecting the opinions of others. I also found many of his comments to be mindless remarks that had no bearing on the topic being discussed. 
 
Some of Joel's actions were rude/ignorant but responding seemed to boost his ego and it meant running the risk of being suspended or banned.  I did feel that Joel was allowed to make some appalling comments but didn't see the point in attempting to reason with him.  I simply hoped that lurkers would realize there was much better information on the site than in the Joel posts.
 
I do find it sad that Joel felt compelled to act out in such a tactless manner.  But I am more upset that we lost some valuable members as a result. 
 
 

I agree with Jetty, I think the problem is that it seemed like Joel "tried" to get people irritated, I think it gave him a powerful feeling to be in charge of a topic.  Maybe this is how he boosted his self esteem. I just hope that if he goes on other forums, that he might have learned that empowering yourself by hurting others is no gain to your esteem.

Christinia I agree that there were some folks who made it their own personal mission in life to "get rid of Joel".  I got a number of emails from one urging me to join threads and put him in his place.  I chose not to play into someones personal vendetta and instead spoke only when something Joel said that really bothered ME and not often even then.
 
I know that I tried to be tolerant of Joel and to ignore most of his silliness.  Others did not.  But the bottom line is that Joel had TWO suspensions and time to really consider what he was doing "wrong" and he made the choices that he made that ultimately cost him his posting privledges.  None of us did that to Joel.  He did it to himself.