Is it OK to let Ruby "choose" not to go potty? (tacran)

Just my opinion but I don't think it's worth the frustration of pushing it too much. Shane can be the same way as Ruby. If he's really got to go, he'll do it fairly quickly but otherwise, he'll stand there and stare at me or head back to the door to go in. He's never alone for more than a few hours, so it's a little different but as you said, you know she can hold it for 8 or 9 hours. I'm sure she'll be fine and it won't put a bad spin on your day by feeling frustrated.

 I totally understand why you want her to go but truthfully I wouldn't force it.

I had to get my head around this concept with B because he does the same as Ruby & Shane. And if he lies down outside it can be hard to get him in.

He tends to not want to go out at night so with his shoulder/elbow thing if he showed resistance I've let him be and honestly he still doesn't NEED to go in the morning LOL.

I so wish I had the same bladder capacity and control

The only time I force the issue is before bed since we have a history of accidents in the house overnight if they don't potty right before bed. So regardless of the weather I make them go out and do their business.

 I teach my dogs to "do busies" (business) and they get praise and treats when they go.  So they know the drill.  They are not keen in rain, especially downpours, and I don't blame them - they must think the cats have the life at that point!  He heee  But if I insist, they know they can go and stay close to the house under the eave. not get too wet. 

In the past 4 months, I've started training them to use pee pads -- I feel terrible sending them out in rain, snow and cold.  My pups aren't spoiled *whistling*  They are getting older, 2 already have arthritis issues and I know how that feels in the rain!  Plus, life has changed now my Dad is in the nursing home, I'll be returning to work at some point.  (Bichons have small bladders, they generally have to pee every 4 hours, a few rare bichons can hold it 5 hours).

Now at bedtime, I have a different term:  LAST CALL.  They know, no matter how snuggled in they are, no matter if they went out to pee in the past 15 minutes, EVERYONE goes out.  As to whether they pee or not, well, I keep track but if the dog was out for a pee in the last half hour, I don't get upset if s/he doesn't go again.  Doesn't matter what the weather is, LAST CALL means you go out, no ifs, ands or buts about it.  And they know - they come in and head straight to my bed!  I am left to close doors and put out lights all by my lonesome while they get all the choice spots on the bed.  

I think we all face this at some point. But I"m going to say "it depends". There are times here when everbuddy has to go OUT. Period. Even if they only stand on the ramp. OUT. But it's not like you can push a button and make it drizzle out! Sorry -- but we can only give them the opportunity. Charlie still has issues with rain -- it's fear, pure and simple and I"ve seen him refuse to go out even in the morning after holding it all night just because water is falling from the sky!! But usually once he gets outside, he sticks with one of the girls, does his thing and comes in. But Tracy I don't "bribe" -- not ever. If I'm having problems getting a dog 'out' then that dog drags a leash in the house all the time until they realize Mom's in charge. Luna will sometimes get a wild hair and decide she's "not gonna" and I go back to "leash on all the time" so I CAN get her. Then I lead her to where ever and that's that. But there's no punishment, no yelling ... just me picking up the leash and enforcing the issue. She does NOT like to drag a leash. It's merely inconvenient but mostly it signals "human in charge" to her so usually after a couple of days of that, suddenly I have a willing dog again. Try keeping a leash (a different one, something light but at least "different" from one used for walks) by your bed -- and if she gives you a hassle today ... tomorrow morning clip the lead on when you get up and she's near you. Don't comment on it, don't do anything about it just clip it on. If she "refuses" just pick up the leash and take her to the door and let her out, then turn around and go in and shut it. Done. I would NOT leave her leashed while you are not there. It's simply to let her know she can "refuse" but it's not going to do any good. Mom's not going to get mad -- she's just going to stack the deck in her favor. AFter a couple of days forget the leash. But the instant she says "no" just put it back on. I literally don't comment or do anything different -- the leash simply allows me to enforce a behavior rather than letting her say "no" to a command.

I think it depends as well. Brown sometimes looks at me like I've lost it if I try to make him go outside in the rain. Grey practically goes on potty strike in the summer. I've never seen a dog who is so adamant about avoiding the heat. Grant it, south Louisiana in July is disgustingly hot, but jeez, go pee already! He'll go out early in the morning and won't budge until the evening. His bladder must be mighty powerful.

If it's raining, Rupert doesn't always want to go out either. I don't push it.

Thanks for all the input.  Isn't it interesting how there are similarities and differences between all our dogs and their habits?

I love the idea of your "Last Call" command, Sandie.  I wish we'd thought of an easy phrase like that.  We kind of do something like that, but we use a useless (to Ruby) human-type sentence such as, "Time to go to bed; let's go outside for one more potty" or something like that.  I think she knows the difference for the final night potty because even if it's miserable outside, she goes out quickly to do her thing.  It's the mornings that are the issue.

Some dogs do have major bladder control if really necessary.  I remember when we had Tonka and we lived in CT for one winter, he would NOT go out when it was a major snow/wind/ice storm.  He held it for HOURS, not budging off the door threshold -- even with a leash on (you can't really pull a 130 pound dog if he really doesn't want to step forward)!

We took him out on a leash for the first 5 years of his life, so what you described, Callie, is familiar.  Our CT house didn't have a fenced yard.  Our first OR house had a tiny fenced backyard that was nearly all patio, so we had to take him on a leash in the front yard.  We never started that with Ruby since we've got the grassed, fenced backyard now.

Anyway, I won't fret about it as much each morning, now that I've read all your replies! 

 Sandy has the bladder of steel! She held it for three days on a road trip because the grass wasn't HER grass.. And I gave her plenty of opportunities to pee.. She just wouldn't..

My guys know that the faster they go pee (in bad weather) the faster they get back in. If I know they don't have to go, then I don't push it. But if it's first thing in the morning or last pee of the night, every one goes out, no buts.. Thou Dodger will protest the entire way if it's raining...

 I wouldn't force it. We don't have a yard, so we have to take the dogs on leashes. If Luke gets to the door and refuses to go out, I don't make him. He can hold it for quite a while. The only time I might force it is if I know I might be late, and nobody else will be able to get him. Callie and our other dog, Pigeon, are a different story. They don't hold it as long. Pigeon also can't be trusted completely in the house. Pigeon is most likely to be dragged out, because she won't bug you incessantly during the night if she later realizes she needs to go when it's not pouring. Callie and Luke can hold it for quite some time while they are begging to go out, and they are pretty persistent.

Max has his own door so he comes and goes when he wants to, but it's really amazing how long he can hold it when it's pouring outside. He never has any accidents in the house due to not going out before he explodes so I'm going to agree with every one else and say "don't push it" .  As long as she's not going behind the sofa, it's all good.

Joyce

I concur with everyone else. We have "last call" in our house too - LOL. Charlie always has to pee in the AM and at night before bed (since we have had middle of the night accidents before) but every other time it is optional. The morning is easy because he knows he doesn't get his food until after he pees.

 Since posting on here, Dodger had his first accident... It seems when he went out for the last pee, he didn't.... And exploded on my bed at 9 am... LOL. He tried to tell me, I thought he just wanted up cuz he heard voices.. This is why I make sure he pees on the last one.. Cuz I'm lazy in the morning..