Breed Information

    • Bronze

    Breed Information

    Hi everyone. I am new to the boards. I don't have a dog but I do have four cats. My son has autism and we want to get him a dog and train it as an autism service dog. I really would like some advice on what type of breed to get. Here's what we are looking for. I really want small, preferably under 15 pounds. The dog will have to be with us daily and a small dog will work much better into our lifestyle. We really aren't interested in a big dog. Other traits, it must be a happy go lucky dog, that if we socialize well will not be snappy, overly protective, but will like to interact with the public. Another trait, we want smart, because the dog will go through lots of training and I want a dog that will pick up the training well. Other than that we are open. I wanted to get a toy poodle but my husband really isn't a fan of poodles, kind of thinks of them in the stereotypical way, so I thought I would research other breeds to be open minded because I would like it to be a family dog as well. My neighbor's dog is pregnant but it is a Daschund and the father is a Daschund Jack Russell terrier mix and the mom seems kind of snappy. So I am not sure if that is normal for the breed. Thanks for any advice.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Bichon or miniature poodle from a reputable breeder are my suggestions.  The neighbors upcoming litter probably wouldn't be my first choice or second or third. 

     Have you contacted any service/assistance dog organizations?  That might be a good place to start for advice on breed and for training help.  Unless you've previously socialized and trained a dog to be an assistance or service dog you might need some guidance in the training as much as help with a breed choice.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Totally agree with what Jackie said.

    1.  Do you want a puppy?  Can you handle / manage / train a puppy with whatever else you have going on?  (Work, children, school activities etc).  Or do you need a 2 year old dog that is already house trained?

    2.  Going to a responsible breeder is especially critical for this situation - just my opinion.  They will have done the testing on both parents to be sure there are not common genetic illnesses in the line.    Each breed is going to have its own issues which are most prevalent.  A neighbor breeding for money is not the way to go!

    3.  You did not say how old your son is at this time.  Many small breeds are very fragile, and don't do well with children under age 8 (give or take a couple years).  Children need to learn their own strength, not to put fingers in doggie's eyes, and so forth.  

    I think this is where a service organization will be invaluable to you in sorting out all the pros and cons.

    Doesn't forget, with a poodle, a bichon, etc.  they have HAIR not fur.  There is a deal of coat maintenance involved - regular brushing at home, trips to the groomer ( around here that is about $65 every 4 to 6 weeks, which is why I learned to groom them myself), and forget rainy Springtime, you will have a collection of towles in your laundry from wiping off even quick potty trips to the backyard.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    In your circumstance I would also seriously consider a breeder. It sounds like temperament would be a key factor. Many times breeders will sell or know someone who have older pups (like 1 y+) available. At that age it is much easier to predict their temperament.

    I had a chuckle over the cost and care of dogs with hair. After sweeping up a dust bin of hair, $65 sounds like a bargain!!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Everything Jackie & Freedom said (really good words there -- Jackie's an awesome trainer, Freedom knows bichons in and out!!)

    Just a note - beside the iffy breeding of the neighbor, if you have 4 cats you probably don't want a prey-driven dog (like a doxie nor jack russell). 

    You truly *must* contact a service organization for some starting wisdom,  Knowing you *need* a service dog is great, but training is critical.  And if you have never had much experience with dogs, they **are** different than cats.  But be sure and talk about the cats with whomever you get the dog.  If a puppy really isn't feasible (and that's not a 'bad' or 'good' thing it's just whatever fits for you) then a dog with some cat experience may be wise.

    But keep in mind -- bottom line this will be about the bond with your child.  That's not automatic.  It takes time to build that.  Best of luck to you.  think of it as a journey --- you will learn along the way.  Best to you!!  (and welcome -- there are really nice folks here, and very helpful!)

    • Bronze

    Thanks everyone for all of the great advice. The neighbor's dog had the puppies a few days ago, OMG they are so cute, I am going to need a puppy support group or something not to get one. Thankfully he said that they are probably all taken. I like the idea of a Bichon Frise, that might be a good balance. I actually have a history with dogs, had German Shepherds growing up and also worked for a vet and did dog training on the side for about three years, although I am not trained formally we always had really well trained dogs and I just learned to do a lot with positive reinforcement and patience. I also had a Shih Tzu for many years, who we loved, but I just am not sure they have quite the service dog personality. Not the worst, but it took me forever to train her compared to some other dogs. The thing I like about a puppy, other than how cute they are, is that I can socialize it the way I want it socialized in the early months. And I really want it to bond with us. Then again the other part of me wants a shelter dog, but I just don't know if that is too much of a variable personality wise. I'm really on top of bathing and grooming so that's not an issue. I've always wanted a Newfoundland but I think that is way to much hair, slobber, and just general dog for us right now. I think little that could travel with us would be better. I also thought that I might want a dog that might want to learn some agility too, just for fun. It's a good idea to talk to the organizations, I looked at a couple and they both use labs.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Corgi. Tootsie weighs in at 19 lbs., is wonderful with cats, patient with children, great temperament, strongly bonded with me (its just me though) and definitely a wash and wear dog. They DO SHED.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Kai Krishna
    The thing I like about a puppy, other than how cute they are, is that I can socialize it the way I want it socialized in the early months. And I really want it to bond with us. Then again the other part of me wants a shelter dog, but I just don't know if that is too much of a variable personality wise.

    It's the quintessential question we all ask.   And it's sort of all of the above. 

    There are different types of assistance dogs -- they often use labs & standard poodles for general assistance for handicapped/challenged persons -- because of their size they can help a physically challenged person get up, as well as other tasks for bigger dogs.  But for other types of assistance dogs -- from seizure dogs, to PTS (post-traumatic stress) dogs and even things like autism -- it's more personality and bonding with that person.  A lot of training, yes -- but it's triggering that need in dog and human to interact.

    Do a lot of reading -- my husband and I do pet therapy.  VERY *different* from assistance.  Except ... I can tell you that sometimes the most unlikely animals become the best assistance/therapy dogs.  So READ. 

    The folks who are the trainers can give you really good advice (and you're already pre-disposed to positive training which is GREAT), but here are a couple of my favorites:

    Animal-assisted interventions for individuals with autism

    Paws & Effect: The Healing Power of Dogs

    and my favorite: Until Tuesday by Luis Montalvan -- He's not a doctor -- he's a military veteran and it's sort of his 'story'. But it's a really good examination in a practical way of how that journey in training, bonding with the dog, and both the mistakes, successes, bad and the good are part of the package. You learn as much from the bad as you do the good.    Tuesday was the dog who failed all the training, but in exmining and figuring out what made Tuesday "who he was" was part of the key.

    good luck -- it's a wonderful, wonderful journey for all of you -- that dog you folks need is out there -- the one that will "fit" WILL fit!  I so love pet therapy (very different but with elements of what you want to do) and I have learned to have the greatest respect for some of the least likely dogs. 

    • Bronze

    Thank you Callie, that was a wonderful post with a lot of food for thought. Thanks Tiffy, I will reasearch the Corgi.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Research organizations that train dogs specifically for working with ASD children. They are out there and can be wonderful additions to your family. I worked with an autistic boy who had a dog that was a trained service dog. Getting a puppy can be exciting but the difficulties of raising a dog can be magnified by also raising a child with ASD. Good luck!!

    • Gold Top Dog

     I would truly avoid your neighbor's dogs, which it sounds like you are already are. If one already has off temperament, you probably don't want a puppy from that dog.

    I am a behavior analyst, and I work mostly with children with autism. Some of the considerations I would make if I were going to suggest a dog for a kid I worked with would have to do with what types of things you would want the dog to be able to do.  Every time I have seen a service dog for a child with autism, one of the issues the dog was there to help with was elopement. Often times, they would anchor the dog to the child. If the child tried to bolt, the dog had to be large enough that it could stand still and act as an anchor. The dogs I've seen in this role have always been labs. So, if you're looking for a dog who could act as an anchor, you may want something larger. I worked with a kid who had a beagle though, but she was not specifically trained to do therapy, but she was a great dog for that kid.

    My cavalier king charles is not a service dog, but he is a therapy dog. I intended to take him to do therapy work with kids, but that didn't work out, and he goes to visit the elderly. I got him from a breeder who has children, and who was active in doing therapy work with special needs children. She runs a farm and has kids come out to the farm for therapy. She bred for temperament, which is something that will clearly be very important for you in selecting a dog. 

    Early socialization is going to be absolutely critical for your dog. I thought this book was very helpful in terms of suggesting things to do. 

    http://www.amazon.com/Dog-Whos-Always-Welcome-ebook/dp/B001JKV8DI

    I've gotta get dressed and get to work, but if I think of anything else, or you want to ask anything, I'd be glad to try to answer it. 

     

    • Bronze

    Thank you griffenej5. Since you know a bit about autism I can tell you a little more. My son is 13 and he was knocked over by a large dog when he was 6. Ever since he has had a huge phobia of dogs and it has been almost impossible to go anywhere with him, as well as being very dangerous when he elopes from dogs because he is in a place of terror. The phobia got so bad that he generalized it to even cats and birds. Well, two feral cats started showing up at our townhouse and we started to feed them. When we bought our own home I decided to rescue a couple of feral cats from euthanasia. Well, one thing led to another and I started rescuing and placing feral cats for a while. A really unexpected side effect was that my son's phobia of cats almost disappeared. We only have four cats now but he lives pretty well with them. But he is still terrified of dogs. He gets very angry if people don't folow the leash law and will yell at them "Hey, that's not fair. Your dog is supposed to be on a leash." So I want to get lots of baby gates and crates and crates for the car and for him to desensitize to the dog. It is basically just classic phobia desensitization. After that just having a dog with us with an autism vest will help society relate to him and give them a heads up that any movements or behavior that may seem weird to them is related to autism. Another reason I want a puppy as opposed to a grown dog is so he gets used to all of the autism oddities, noises, stims, ect, and doesn't think that is something to be alarmed at. My husband loves Kings Charles Spaniels, and I do believe I have heard that they have good personalities, so that might be a good fit. I was also researching Bichon Frise and they see pretty good too.

    • Gold Top Dog
    If you're looking to get a dog to help your son with his fears of dogs, certainly you must know that this may not help him with issues with all dogs. It may not generalize. What will you do if your son remains terrified? Additionally, the puppy biting may really upset your son, and may not help him to like dogs. You might look and see if anyone near you has a therapy dog who could visit with your son to help work on these issues, or friends with a good, solid dog. An additional consideration might be for a slightly older puppy where teeth would no longer be an issue, or an older dog who has been well socialized early on. Sometimes breeders will have a dog who didn't turn out to be a show prospect, retired from breeding, etc. Great, nice dogs, but may be better in terms of puppy issues which may upset your son. Not saying not to get a puppy, just something I thought I'd throw out there.
    • Gold Top Dog

    I have a son with Asperger's and we have 3 dogs, 2 Beagles...one of which is "His" and a Leonberger. I would absolutely recommend either breed. But I would also go Jen's route and really consider what you'd want the dog to "do" and not do. My son is extremely sensitive to loud sudden noises like BARKING...he is also terrified of unknown dogs coming up to him or jumping. The combo of both just about sends him into orbit.

    My son has a tendency to be heavy handed and this also can factor in if that is something your boy also struggles with. Empathy...as in knowing if another creature is or is not enjoying the interaction...is afraid, aggressive etc. Not his strong suit...can your son read animals and more importanly take cues therefrom? He also is not overly body concious and has stepped on or tripped over or FALLEN ON TOP OF, our dogs. Again...something to consider. How would a dog react to all those things?

    One of my son's favorite things is looking at items, people or animals UP CLOSE...as in an eyelash apart. From various angles. He will do this with his own puppy and she used to it, but other dogs, raised with a child or not...are going to vary with their tolerance of that sort of thing.

    My son has a lot of self comforting noises and humming he does...and can get at times, a bit loud in a sudden manner that could absolutely frighten certain types of dogs.

    I would steer clear really of the typical "super smart" breeds because at least in my opinion? They think too much and are always too alert and trying to figure out what it going on. That is great when you have jobs where independant thinking is important and not so great when you just need the dog to follow a set behavior infalibly even if its the millionth time that day its had to do it. IME dogs with high empathy and attachment to people...either because they like praise, or because they like food...are best for this. I like my Beagles because they are absolutely forgiving of any rough treatment, wierdness, or etc with a treat. With a treat anyone at anytime, OWNS them ;)

    And let me say, about the size of the dog. You said you want a puppy...well, puppies are small, even the Giant breeds...there will be no comparsion in the home at the time the pup arrives and as the pup grows with your son I have a feeling the size will matter a lot less to him because it will be HIS dog. You know?

    And let me just put in a plug for the Leonberger. People can talk all about Labs and Goldens but I will say this...Leonbergers are about as perfect a "family" dog...as it gets IMO. They are PART of your family in the sense that they are attuned to everyone...they genuinely care about everyone. They are protective WITHOUT being aggressive, they are steady, loyal, incredibly INCREDIBLY patient and forgiving dogs. They do not bark excessively, they do not require a ton of exercise, and they don't NEED you to occupy their minds 24 hours a day.They are almost ALMOST a nanny in a dog suit. Many Leo's absolutely excell in therapy work as it seems the job they were born to to. They care, and watch over without any of the intensity you get from other breeds, and enjoy human company and interaction in a much more restrained and noble manner than many sporting breeds do.

    Now if you must stay small at least go sturdy...Beagles, Pugs, and French Bulldogs come immediately too mind. Not too much grooming, care of their minds required, minimal exercise should do, and all have a nice high tolerance for nonsense. I always say any child's dog must have a high tolerance for nonsense lol! ALL mine do and ALL mine actually seem to ENJOY a bit of nonsense. We have many canine smiles a day here due to kids and dogs interacting and that is how it should be :)

     

    ETA: and since I want to be honest? My son freaks some dogs out...he just does. His manner of movement and vocalization and heck maybe some dogs are aware of the chemical differences as well who knows? But some dogs even those raised in a home with a child on the spectrum...are just going to decide the kid freaks them out. That is a risk you take adopting a shelter dog OR bringing in a puppy. Puppies can be raised around lots of things and just one day decide a certain thing is no longer okay. SO if you want to be fully prepared? Be sure you have a plan for if things DO NOT WORK OUT. That is fairest to the dog and to your son, both. Everyone has to be safe, feel safe, and have a safe place to be...human or canine. That should be what any dog that lives in a home with kids, special needs to not...should be able to expect. Sadly that's not always the case. Have a plan. :)

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Yes to everything Gina said! I was writing again in between going to see kids.

    Once you're narrowed down your breeds, you can start talking to breeders and tell them what you are looking for. Be honest about it, even if being honest means some breeders will say no to giving you one of their dogs. The boy I used to work with who had a beagle, his family was turned down by several rescues because of his diagnosis. He was never aggressive towards animals, and did fine with his own dog (the beagle) when they got it. He also liked to play a sometimes with my cavalier.

    Though, if your son is afraid of dogs, I can't say anything specifically about your son having never met and evaluated him, I'd try to do a bit of desensitization prior to getting a dog. It may not be "fair" to him or to a puppy to put them into a situation where he is terrified. 

    Really, a nicely bred pittie with a good temperament and good early socialization could work very nicely, as could many breeds. If you're looking for small and you do not have to worry about your son hurting a dog,  any of the breeds Gina mentioned could make nice choices.  A cavalier might be suitable, and many of them do well with therapy work too. However, there are serious health issues in the breed which could spell a short life span. I also think they're semi high maintenance in comparison to the other dogs I've had. I went away for the weekend, and I needed to pack him a hair brush.