Puppy pads for an older blind dog

Do you think it's that she's "Missing" it (her front feet are on the plastic but her back feet aren't? or not all 4 feet are lined up??) or is she just plain avoiding the plastic? so you keep trying to make the area bigger? 

If that's the case give her something more finite (like something with edges?  like a boot tray or make a frame out of 1X2's so she knows she has to go "all the way to the wall" or something?

Like tape a sheet of plastic where her nose NEEDS to be in order to be "on" the target.  Soon as she gets her nose TO the plastic, put a dab or meat baby food, butter, peanut butter or tahini in front of her nose as a reward.  Next time she has to "find the target" with her NOSE and then tell her "Ok Finish your business and you'll get your goodie"

Typically blind dogs who are still really functioning mentally respond well to scent -- so if you can give her a finite "place" to go that puts her bodily where she MUST be to hit the paper that will help.

My next thot is to put bitches britches on her and put human continence pads in them.  I did that for Ms. Socks for YEARS.  You have to cut out the plastic insert (it cracks and makes them sore after a few washings) -- but you take one of the super "long" human continence pads, cut it in half and tape the edges shut with nylon first aid tape (not the waterproof stuff the "hypoallergenic" paper or nylon tape so urine doesn't roll off it).  Fold the rounded edge down a good big inch -- Then position it in the britches so it's almost covering the hole.  THEN put it on her and seat that folded down edge way up under her tail.  That way she won't just pee halfway out of the hole (can you tell I've done this a few zillion times?)

Ms. Socks' s problem was she was simply incontinent -- she leaked ALL the time.  But she still wanted to go out and *try* to pee.  So I had to take them off her went she went outside (and you get so used to seeing them ON them you forget!! *grin* we used to keep a note on the door "take Socks' jeans OFF!!";)

The problem with puppy pads is they don't hold much urine.  Not usually enough for a full grown dog who is holding it well enough to know when they gotta go. 

But dogs -- even sighted ones -- don't spatially figure out "Ok -- I gotta be THIS FAR onto this or I'll miss it".  So they go on far enough for their front feet to be on there but the back ones don't -- or even if the back feet were on initially by the time she squats the back feet have slid off the  target.  In a fully grown dog they take up more room to squat than you'd think -- particularly if the back legs are at all weak.  Luna will lean so far forward her toes are way behind her butt (maybe that's just the house trying to sniff in front of herselfl while the back is occupied?)

My other thot for you is if you could convince her to try litter.  ??

But I'm betting if you could give her some sort of a better defined area -- IF she's still cognizant of what she *wants* to do -- a wooden frame lined with plastic or even a big boot tray -- that would give her back feet something to brace against which would give her a better idea that she was "inside" the target area.

But by defining the area so you can teach her she has to go forward to **here** and maybe give her something for the back feet to touch will help you keep the rest of her on the target. 

Or is it sort of a dementia issue?  I'm talking like this is a training issue but if there is some dementia then you'll have to default to the bitches britches thing.  That does really work very well -- human continence pads HOLD a ton of urine.  Once you then know she's wet, you have to get them off her and wipe her with a baby wipe -- you don't want her to run a UTI.  You'll need 3-4 pairs of britches cos you'll need to wash them every time.  There's a little leakage but enough that you'll need to wash it. 

 Heck -- my Sunday nights used to be spent cutting up the next bag of continence pads.  The long ones work GREAT (so you get two out of each one) which helps keep the cost down.  The family joke was that between David and I we knew more about which brands we did and did NOT like than any newly married couple should need to know who didn't have a baby!!  I tried diapers and they did NOT work.   Couldn't keep them on. 

There are also full bed sized continence pads for people -- have you tried it **without** the plastic under in case it's a sound issue?

 Thanks for the variety of thoughts, Callie.  She's not incontinent at all, and I don't think there is any dementia.  I have noticed her back legs getting weaker, so maybe that is it.  Where would you get boot tray...Tractor Supply?  I know Petsmart does carry a tray to lock these pads in place.  They were a bit expensive, and I could see myself having to clean them a zillion times a day, so I didn't get any.  I guess I could try one or two, and see if it helps.  I think I'll try a drop of something smelly in the middle also, so she might learn what to aim for.  I think she'd freak out with diapers...she did when she had a head cone. 

I made a dog potty out of a large strip of pre-cut artificial grass (ordered from ebay!). It has drainage holes and everything, so I just put it over a large crate tray to collect urine.

The texture is very close to real grass (much more so than the dog potties you buy already put together---those feel like carpet to me!). If your dog likes the feel of grass maybe give this a try?

marty_ga

  I think I'll try a drop of something smelly in the middle also, so she might learn what to aim for.

Because she can't see behind her, and her feet may not be sensitive enough to know where they are.  My guess is if you give her something to *touch* with her nose that will get her far enough forward so she'll make it onto the pads.  Girls tend not to "aim" -- they just squat.  If her back legs are weak, then she may squat differently a bit than she used to and she may not be able to feel the pad under her.  I'm betting she can't judge how far forward she actually IS. 

Diapers DON'T work.  The bitches britches are fabric and you adjust them to stay on the hips with the tail thru the hole.  Socks didn't like them much at first -- but they gave her freedom back to her. 

But the pads will be **better** health-wise.  She walks away 'dry' -- when the urine stays next to them it can tempt a UTI.  It's better than losing the dog, but ...

You could honestly probably knock together a frame pretty easily -- Home Depot will make a couple of cuts in furring for nothing and you could just staple a tarp to it (or hot glue it - whichever you have).  That would again give her a definitive space she could **feel** and you could put a dot of scent on the corners so she could find it.

A crate tray would be **easier** by far (and waterproof) but they are also danged expensive.  Last one I bought separately was near the cost of the crate -- but maybe I just don't know where to buy them cheap. 

With an older blind dog "touch" is their savior and so is smell. 

IF you do something like that -- buy cheap linoleum to put UNDER it  and make that BIGGER than the 'box' for protection.

I've had a bunch of elderly girls -- and with each one I've kind of have to approach the problem differntly for each one.  good luck, Java!!

 The only problem I see with a wooden frame is that it will absorb urine and eventually smell also...towels and plastic can just be washed or replaced.  I do have a couple crates that rarely get used unless I need to confine the dogs for some reason.  One of those trays could work.  Think I might try that tomorrow and see what happens.  The other thing with Java is that she has a rather stiff legged gait, much like a Chow.  She is a mix, and could possibly have some in her although she is fairly small...40 lb.  Sometimes that causes her to rearrange the puppy pads, sometimes not.  I'll see how the crate tray works, then maybe try the thingies from Petsmart which hold the puppy pads down.

BTW, she is not in any danger of being put down over this...it's not her fault nor is it something terminal with no hope.  Just trying to find a solution for both of us to live easier.  The carpet in her choice of location was a gonner a long time ago...I'll replace it at some point in time...

I can't go back to identify who mentioned the imitation grass...that might be an option also, but it has been 5 or 6 years since she has felt comfortable going outside.  There are 3 steps going out any of my doors, and being blind, she seems to be scared of them, even if I am there with her.  I will keep that in the back of my mind.

Marty, we have a place up here called Job Lot--and you can get a boot tray for $3 or $4. Maybe Walmart would have something that would work? Or a hardware store? (If you've got some time to roam the aisles at one of the big ones, I bet you'll find something.) I used the human bed pads ("chux";)  from Walgreens for Frisby when I thought she might have an accident--they come in different "stengths" and I think they are a lot cheaper than the puppy pads. I used the store brand and they worked well. They have a plastic sheet (lightweight) on one side to prevent leak-throughs.

Extra scritches for Java!

Yeah I was thinking to cover the frame with a tarp -- but if you have an unused crate pan that rocks. The trick will be getting her to move forward far enough onto the pad -- you'll have to train her with some words like "You're ON" or "You're inside!!  Go girl!!"

Have you tried scent training with her at all?  I've done that several times with blind dogs -- particularly when I know they are afraid of "edges" (like the edge of a porch or falling down a stairwell) -- I'll take one scent that means "caution sharp drop!!" (you'll have to put that in words for her -- "this is the stairs down to the cellar - that's far enough";) -- but a couple of dots of that scent (I'm thinking hot cinnamon *smile*).

Then a totally different scent for doorways (lemon oil or something not obnoxious) - one drop on each side so she can find her way between them without risking bumping into something.

Use a different scent for "up" stairs -- (they are every bit as much of a tripping hazzard) -- but one scent for the top and one for the bottom so she knows when she's almost there.

If your crate pan is plastic -- be sure you put a plastic tarp or tablecloth UNDER it -- they can crack easily and that would make a mega mess underneath.

Like Kate -- I tend to think you may make out better with the human bedpads -- and if you look online (both e-bay and amazon) you may find them cheaper.

You're like me -- this isn't a reason to put an animal down -- in fact I hope rather strongly that no one puts  ME to pasture cos I can't hold it any more!  *smile* 

Let me know what ultimately works pretty please??  I always like to file one more "idea" away for future reference. 

This is a PS -- what I just said above made me think of  a conversation with my grandma years ago.  She remained in her own home nearly to the end.  But she had a set of stairs going both up to the 2d floor and down to the cellar that were HORRIBLE.  Both were twisting staircases and just so dangerous.

Finally Gram had a toilet installed in her dining room.  *smile* -- she kept her drapes pulled -- but my mother had a FIT because it was going to "spoil" the house. 

Gram said "Look -- I'm almost 90.  I still get myself up to bed at night and I still do the laundry in the danged cellar.  But at my age trying to get clear upstairs to the toilet and trying to hurry??  I'm going to break my fool neck!!!!  It's MY house and *I* don't care!!  When I'm done with it, let someone tut tut about how bad a toilet looked in the dining room.  But if it saved her from being scared?  If it helped keep her in her house 6 months longer?  I thot it was great.  Not quite a typical thing to do -- but it was do-able.

My point is simply this -- do what *you* have to do for Java.  You're alone and taking loving care of an elderly blind dog.  You rock lady ... do whatcha need to do.  I just thot I'd tell you of another feisty lady and her unorthodox solution ... LOL.  What I really loved was her ability to tell the rest of the world to go jump. It may not have been a perfect solution but it was *her* solution. 

 LOL, Callie!  Java's room of choice just happens to be my dining room!  I really don't entertain anymore, and my family understands, loves Java, and knows I do everything I can to keep it relatively clean.  Gotta be a dog lover to understand this one!

My Grandma LOVE dogs -- and she would think a dog named Java was THE best.  IN fact, she'd probably want you to have her molasses cookie recipe -- cos nothing better on this planet than Gram's molasses cookies and a cup of Java!!

so -- tell Java the story about Aunt Callie's Gramma who went to the potty in the dining room, too!! LOL

 I think I love your Grandma!

She was all the best I ever learned -- to this day (and she's been gone like 22 or more years) I will still catch myself thinking "I wish I could call Gram and tell her about this ... " and realize she's been gone so long it was silly to think it.  But tell Java we old gals gotta stick together and figger stuff out.

btw *grin* I Pm'd you those recipes *laughing* -- your grandkids would LOVE making them.  when you see baking soda to molasses, AND in the other recipe when you add baking soda to the sour cream -- it 'grows'.  Literally it will foam up and over the sides of the cup.  My first science teacher was my blue-haired Gramma.  Eccentric?  nah -- couldn't be ... could it?? LOL