Another Town Passes Vicious Dog Ordinance

hello

[font=sylfaen][color=#800000]Jaye, I applaud you for taking your dog search seriously and for doing so much research.  I sincerely hope that you will one day find the perfect doggie-match for your family.  Once you do and you fall in love with that dog, then perhaps you'll have a better understanding of why some people in this thread are reacting to your posts in what you consider a negative way.
 These breeds that you are calling "dangerous" aren't just some story in the news or a picture on a website.  They are real live dogs who are laying next to the real live people who are reading, and responding to your words.  They are their family members.  Surely you can understand how your continued incorrect depiction of a dog that they actually own would eventually become offensive to them.   Furthermore, they are speaking from personal experience and you are not.  Actually, I think that you've been treated very "respectfully" by everyone under the circumstances.[/color][/font]

amstaffy, i never said small dogs dont bite, im not arguing that at all. but they dont KILL and DISFIGURE people when they do because people can defend themselves and against small dogs. they dont have the crushing jaws that the dangerous breeds do. they dont have the mass and the power.

ORIGINAL: jaye

amstaffy, i never said small dogs dont bite, im not arguing that at all.  but they dont KILL and DISFIGURE people when they do because people can defend themselves and against small dogs.  they dont have the crushing jaws that the dangerous breeds do.  they dont have the mass and the power.

 
Guess what?  If a Bloodhound bites you, or a Giant Schnauzer bites you, you are going to feel the pain, same as if a Rott or a Pit does it.
This is a HUMAN problem, not a breed problem.  When you ban Pits and Rotts, you are not addressing the basic problem.  The thugs and idiots that keep dogs as extensions of their genitalia will just graduate to other breeds, guns or reptiles, but they won't stop being idiots or thugs.  That is why BSL doesn't work.  Good owners will lose great dogs because they can't afford liability insurance, and the bad guys won't give a crap because they consider the dogs disposable anyway, so if AC confiscates one, they just go out and get another.  Good luck if you think this will work.  Not only will it not work, but pretty soon no one will be able to own a dog that weighs more than ten pounds soaking wet.  (And even that won't satisfy the anti dog bite zealots when Chihuahuas are at the top of the bite list.) 

And, jaye, aren't you the one who didn't know what puppy mills were, and wants to adopt a "smallish" dog for three kids under the age of ten?  You need to know a whole lot more about dog behavior before you do that.  Your kids would be safer with an AmStaff than with a tiny dog that they would probably terrorize.
Kids under ten are the most frequent bite victims, so if I were you, and had the fear of large breeds that you do, I'd wait until the kids were older and learn a lot more before getting any dog.
I'm a trainer, and I see lots of mistakes, unfortunately, because parents assume the wrong things about certain dog breeds.

spiritdogs, i resent you saying that my children would probably terrorize a dog.  my children are not terrors, they know how to treat all animals with respect and when we get our dog it will be treated just like any other family member.  also, i have 2 kids, not three, its right there in my signature on every post.  i dont think not ever hearing of puppy mills before qualifies me as not not knowing anything about dogs or not being ready to own one.  like i stated in that other thread, we dont have pet stores here that sell dogs or cats and we dont have a problem with puppy mills and i only just started doing research on dogs last week.  and like ive already stated again and again, im not under the assumption that no small breeds bite.
 
minimom, i am very aware that there are real dogs with real people that are members of their family.  i know what its like to have pets and love them.  i dont think that excuses being rude under any circumstances when trying to have a discussion.  its really hard to hear what someone is trying to say when they say it rudely.  i find it interesting that since ive stated how the more respectful posters have started to convince me and make me start to agree with them, i am still getting nothing but negative comments.  you would think someone out there would give me some credit for that, be happy about it, and have some positive feedback to say about it. 

Jaye, Anne did NOT say that your children were terrors.  She said that they would LIKELY terrorize a small dog, because,it doesn't take much to scare them.  Little kids make gawd-awful shieking noise when they play, and that's just what little kids do.  They also make funny, fast and jerky noises that upset SMALL dog much more than larger ones.  Having raised only boys, I was appalled to hear blood curdling screams coming from my neighbors yard.  I tore out side still in my jammies, and his daughters were playing and having a ball.  I would have SWORN someone was murdering them.  A large dog can take that kind of stuff more in stride, if he's acclimated to it, than can a small one.  That is ALL that Anne was saying.
 
BYB's are everywhere.  Puppy mills are everywhere.  And these are things you do need to learn so you don't fall victem to them.

i think its just as bad to assume that about larger dogs, a friend of mine has a neopolitan mastiff, she is huge, and she is pretty skittish around the kind of behaovior from kids you just described. 

jaye--Anne is a TRAINER who also works with therapy dogs--she has forgotten more about dog training than most of us on this board know. Glenda has bred smaller dogs (cocker spaniels), raised children, and owns six large dogs. If you truely are looking for advice about finding a dog, they are the ones to give it to you. perhaps you should be a little more open to learning rather than completely rejecting their advice because it's not what you want to hear.

ORIGINAL: jaye

spiritdogs, i resent you saying that my children would probably terrorize a dog. my children are not terrors, they know how to treat all animals with respect and when we get our dog it will be treated just like any other family member. also, i have 2 kids, not three, its right there in my signature on every post. i dont think not ever hearing of puppy mills before qualifies me as not not knowing anything about dogs or not being ready to own one. like i stated in that other thread, we dont have pet stores here that sell dogs or cats and we dont have a problem with puppy mills and i only just started doing research on dogs last week. and like ive already stated again and again, im not under the assumption that no small breeds bite.

minimom, i am very aware that there are real dogs with real people that are members of their family. i know what its like to have pets and love them. i dont think that excuses being rude under any circumstances when trying to have a discussion. its really hard to hear what someone is trying to say when they say it rudely. i find it interesting that since ive stated how the more respectful posters have started to convince me and make me start to agree with them, i am still getting nothing but negative comments. you would think someone out there would give me some credit for that, be happy about it, and have some positive feedback to say about it.

Just as YOU do not want people assuming things about your children I do not want you assuming things about MY dog, who is the closest thing I may ever have to a child.

i dont recall rejecting any of their advice?   and i have never in any of my posts assumed anything about your dog.   and why are you still arguing with me after i have stated twice that the more respectful posters have persuaded me to their way of thinking?  do you just like the drama?

You're sitting there arguing with them.

no im not, read my post again. 

[8|]OK

You can resent it if you want, but small children in general terrorize tiny dogs - it has nothing to do with them being obedient children and not "terrors".  Children screech and they make jerky movements. They run and tumble.  Larger dogs are intimidated sometimes, too, by this activity, depending on their breed and type.  In general, you will find that many small dog breed rescues will not adopt out their dogs to families with kids as young as yours.  But, isn't it interesting how you took so much offense to my statement, when you paint all Pits and Rotts with the same brush?
They aren't all bad any more than your kids are terrors just because they're kids. 

[sm=rotfl.gif]

I have to laugh!!!

Jaye, everyone's been civil to you, believe me. You'd know if they weren't! [sm=lol.gif]

If you think breed bans are a good idea, well, that's your business. *I* think they are not effective and not even meaningful. The good owners and dogs suffer, and the bad owners just blow it off and continue to be bad owners.

The whole idea of a breed ban is false because it isn't the breed that is the problem. The dog is a dog. It's the OWNERS who are dangerous.

If you have taught your children the right way to treat an animal, to move slowly and talk softly (none of that supersonic screaming, I've heard that, too, glad I had a boy!), not to reach OVER the dog's head, not to pick up the dog, etc. Then you are doing a good thing because if they learn how to treat a dog right, they'll be much safer around dogs in general.

For instance, people approach my dog incorrectly all the time. They'll LOOM over her, reach over her head...luckily she's not a submissive pee-er. But she'll back up with all her hair sticking up. She has to be introduced, and she has to decide at what point she's comfortable with people. I'm constantly teaching people how to make friends with a dog. And I don't put her in a position where she'll get overwhelmed and freaked out by too much stuff, too many people. I'm a good owner. In someone else's hands Sofia would have bitten by now. But she's never bitten anyone, and only air-snapped once (because a kid got right in her face before I could stop him). Now she goes out to the car while that kid has his lesson.

There must be a good link somewhere, or a good book, on how to teach children and adults how to approach and treat a dog. Anyone?