Silver labs?

Am I looking at this wrong? None of those dogs are titled! I think this whole silver thing is a mistake! We should just continue to make the established breeds better--not create new ones!

original:Lizziecollie
Marleysmom: Not everyone can have such a gorgeous looking lab like you do so they have to create these horrid designer dogs!!

[]Thank you very much! Lizzie is quite a pretty girl herself!

Here's another interesting link:
[linkhttp://www.labbies.com/silver.htm]http://www.labbies.com/silver.htm[/link]
 
It is genetically "possible" for silver labs to exist. However it would require a color gene mutation for the dilution to occue and this is where the debate lies.  Check out the link above its pretty interesting.  My guess is that some of these are true silver labs while others are mixes.  When "special","unique" variations on a popular breed are brought into play there are many less reputable people willing to do shady things to make a buck. Like crossing a lab with a weim to magically produce the silver lab. 
 
Blue weims are actually fairly similar in this debate in that some believe its a color gene mutation while others believe that it simply started by a non-weim being bred to a weim. Regardless, I think blue weims are beautiful and have the same wonderful temperment as the gray weim.  Just because a majority of people do not agree that they should not be allowed to show in conformation, I think its fine for these dogs to be bred if they are evaluated by a judge to have sound conformation AND achieve performance titles AND are health check.  Especially since two blue weims can produce silvers.  So if they are both exceptional specimens and have been proven, then thier progeny could potentially contribute to the accepted gray standard. And perhaps one day the standard will change to allow blues and long-haired weims(I'd love that! Would be nicer for the colder climates...)
 
My stance is that even producing "new" breeds isn't a bad thing as long as you're not doing it for the wrong reasons, like making a fast buck.  I'm okay with it if you're creating it to serve a purpose. Half the purebred dogs we own wouldn't exist if someone didn't create their breed at some point in time.
 

I have no idea if that was a mutation or a cross-breed (Weim) and would be really interested to learn more. We have an issue with whites/albanoids that appeared in our breed 30 years ago, and there was tons of research done to determine what happened.  [linkhttp://www.dpca.org/albinoinfo1.html]http://www.dpca.org/albinoinfo1.html[/link]  The white was a mutation, proven as not related to the dilution genes, and was not the result of cross-breeding.  It appeared and persists due to this terrible fascination with "designer" dogs that causes folks to want something unusual.  White Dobes are generally thought to have many more medical and behavioral issues than their standard counterparts.  Having handled more than one, I'd say the estimations are generally on-point.
 
I wonder if these Silver Labs are said to have other medical/behavior issues, too?  I would presume they do, just from the intense in-breeding.  But I wonder what else is there. 
 

I wasn't going to post this because I'm not really supporting designer breeds - but...A friend of mine bought one.  He was origanally just looking for a good chocolate lab breeder.  The breeder shows chocolate labs.  The pups weren't born when he bought them and he visited the breeder and the bitch who is a retired show dog with quite a few championships according to my friend (father was a stud service from California and he has paper work on him too).  It sounds like the breeder is a good breeder.  This is the breeder's first litter of silvers.  I'm guessing she bred them out of curiousity.  $900 a pup.

Oh, I should add that only 2 of the pups are "silver" the rest are chocolate, according to my friend anyways, who is paying $200 extra for "silver."  Just heard from him today he  and his fiance are very excited.  The breeder feeds Eagle Pack Large Breed and isn't letting them home until 10 weeks.  Sounds like a curious reputable breeder to me.

producing "new" breeds isn't a bad thing as long as you're not doing it for the wrong reasons,

Agreed, considering my breed came about in the same "designing" fashion.  Many others, too.  However, with our whites, they really do have "issues" both medically and behaviorally (I have yet to meet one white that isn't shy, bites, or acts irratically more than once) and perpetuating that is detrimental to the health of our breed.
 
If the silver are truly labs with a genetic mutation (not Weim x's) and they don't have health problems, then I'd say we might be limiting our scope of the breed without truly understanding what happened and what's good for the breed.

Paige,
Here's a great website about the blue weim.  Blue's do not have more health issues or behavioral issues than grays.  Because you do not need two blues to produce blues you widen the gene pool considerably. Thus limiting the health and behavior issues of severe inbreeding.  Inbreeding in and of itself is not a bad thing in dogs.  It actually helps in some cases to keep the integrity of the breed.  As long as its done properly that is.  The website goes into the specifics on the dilution gene and how particular pairings between blues and grays results in the kind of puppies they have.  I'll have to check out that dobe website. I've never heard of a white one!

opps litters between a lab and weim 'breeders' would have to keep on mixing the weims in because if not the color would have been bred out.

Just FYI, dilute is a recessive trait and could literally continue in a closed gene pool forever without expression.  Or it could pop up without warning through narrowing of the gene pool (usually from selection for specific traits).

I am so way not into candy colored BCs, or kennel that specialize in them, but here's a good explanation of many common colors, patterns, and modifiers. http://www.bryningbordercollies.com/Border-Collie-Colours

I guess my lab will be silver when he is old and gray! [sm=lol.gif]

I wouldn't say that the dog is ugly.  However, I would say that it is very strange looking.  It just doesn't look right. IMO 

Marleysmom, your lab is so absolutely stunning.  He just shines!!! Do you mind me asking your secrets?  What does he eat? Do you give supplements for skin and coat? 

original:luv_my_jakey
Marleysmom, your lab is so absolutely stunning. He just shines!!! Do you mind me asking your secrets? What does he eat? Do you give supplements for skin and coat?

Thank you very much! I really have to attribute it to all of the great advice I've received here and the fact he has really good genetics! I think he gets that beautiful black coat from his "Dad" Jake-http://home.socal.rr.com/esoneson/jake/ .

I feed EP Holistic Large and Giant Breed Adult (the new one). I also supplement with salmon oil and Wholistic Canine Completehttp://www.thewholisticpet.com/ . I give him raw veggies sometimes too like carrots and green beans. He likes apples too!

Also, I think brushing him helps keep him shiny too. I use a slicker and a curry (sp?) comb. Helps keep the shedding down as well.