Dog Community

Dog Park Ethics

Posted : 6/30/2006 11:23:37 AM

Okay, this might be a long one...My sister and I took Cookie to the dog park last night. There was a seven month old GSD who was not neutered. He would not leave Cookie alone. It got to the point where Cookie was hiding underneath a chair and this dog was still trying to get to her. The owner of the GSD had actually said, "Why do you bring your dog here if you don't want her to play?"

To which my sister had responded, "That's not playing..." and this guy had said "Well keep your dog away from my dog..." Meanwhile, every where Cookie went, this dog was sure to follow. He would say to the dog "Leave that dog alone" and turn his back so sure enough, the GSD went right back to Cookie.

At one point, when the dog went to Cookie and tried to mount her, the owner grabbed him by the collar and yelled, "You won't listen to me!" in the dogs face, attached the leash and took the dog outside.

Whew, I thought to myself, maybe this guy will go home. Nope, sure enough, he came back five minutes later with the dog. Soon as he got past the gate, the dog went right to Cookie.

[sm=evilfire.gif]

This is really starting to annoy me now because this guy had absolutely NO control over his dog. He would say, "Leave that dog alone" and then turn his back. The last time the dog went to Cookie, he said, and I quote "If I have to leave one more time because of these bulls*** people, I'm never coming back."

[sm=no%20no%20smiley.gif]

I said "Bulls*** people! Maybe your dog needs to neutered!" To which he replied "You need to be neutered!" and I said "oh, that's mature"....

Now my question is, how should this situation have been handled? There's a sign at the entrance to the dog park that states "Those who have intact dogs need to keep special watch over them."

No I know that neutering your dog is your own personal choice. Personally, I'm all for it. With the amount of dogs in shelters...

However, if you can not control your dog, you need to leave the park, correct? Or perhaps not even bring them.

What do you guys think?

pumaward

Posted : 6/30/2006 11:28:57 AM

I would have begged him to leave and never come back [:@].

Jeez, what a jerk... I actually feel bad for the dog. Did you try tell his dog to leave yours alone? Sometimes blocking the dog from getting to yours will send the message that you won't tolerate it his behavior.

Is there a phone number at the park to contact in case there's trouble?

fuzzy_dogs_mom

Posted : 6/30/2006 11:31:54 AM

I would have been tempted to do a little neutering myself - on the spot - and NOT necessarily the dog.[:@]

Joyce

Mic

Posted : 6/30/2006 12:14:36 PM

In my opinion, you should have left. Things aren't going to go perfectly at the dog park every time. Just try again another day.

Kara

Posted : 6/30/2006 12:21:49 PM

What a jerk. That guy was a total whackjob. I think every park experiences a dog/owner combo like this at some point. I probably wouldn't have handled it any different, really. I would have told the guy he needed to control his dog then did everything in my power to get his dog to leave mine alone. I might have even grabbed his dog by the collar and walked it to the guy and given the owner a piece of my mind too.

There was a guy with a pair of full grown Bouvier that came to the park and these dogs ran roughshod all over ALL the other dogs at the park. They did everything from proctology type butt sniffs, mounting, and totally pushing other dogs around with their bodies to break up dogs having fun. All of the dog owners ganged up on the guy and told him and his ill behaved dogs to leave.

Two weeks ago there was a really obnoxious GSD puppy that was doing running jumps on to every person at the dog park. He jumped up on me several times. The first time he hit me so hard in the nose I heard a *crunch* and saw stars. The owner was like "oh, sorry. He does that." I said "Well he shouldn't be doing that. That really hurt me a lot. It's not cute and people don't appreciate it." Maybe she'll train her dog not to do it, for the love of God I hope so. I will not be happy to see that dog at the park again until he's trained.

cookiemonster

Posted : 6/30/2006 12:36:16 PM

Mic- why should I have to leave if he can't control his dog?

And unfortunately, I don't know of any phone number to contact in case there's trouble. I'm sure there has to be a security booth or something.

I will be going back though. I was considering never going again but I just don't think behavior like that should be allowed. That's just me.

rwbeagles

Posted : 6/30/2006 12:36:29 PM

Mightn't have anything to do with testicles or sex actually. I've seen dogs (often of herding or guarding breeds), male and female, spayed/neutered and not..."fixate" on one dog..usually one that will submit...not escalate...but move away or duck behind objects...or sit and try to ignore them.

They will mount, nip, bark at...etc this other dog until they can get it to move...which is their ultimate goal...so they then can "direct" the other dogs movements and actions.

It's quite interesting...often when the prey dog snaps or mounts in turn or threatens the other will back off...or sometimes escalate into a fight....in which case the pushy dog is usually at fault and the owners clearly know it and leave.

the man should have removed his dog IMO...as it clearly was not interested in play...but in herding or controlling. Perhaps if you suggest this upon seeing him again he can look into herding or Schutzhund classes...lol!

If it were about sex...your bitch would not have been the only victim (she wasn't in season and is fixed I'd assume?)...IMO it's her reactions to him, that drove him to pursue her...her non escalation & way of moving from place to place...Cookie reacted appropriately but sadly not all dogs will read the same signals the same way if they have other instincts at work.

Mic

Posted : 6/30/2006 12:46:36 PM

Mic- why should I have to leave if he can't control his dog?

If he can't control his dog, that means your dog may not be safe or at the very least is not having a good time. It's hardly worth the fight. Just pack up, and come back later. The safety and fun of my dogs comes first. He may have been wrong, but I don't want my dog to be miserable while I try to make a point.

You certainly don't have to leave, but I would have for my dogs benefit.

hlb118

Posted : 6/30/2006 1:04:43 PM

Beau isn't neutered but he is a joy at the dog park. He is very playful, and doesn't mount unless it's a dog challenging him. Other than having to watch him to make sure no female mounting goes on, him not being neutered doesn't affect the park at all.

It's all up to the owner. On many occasions, I've had the same aggressive, lab/great dane mix mount Beau. After so many times Beau finally fought back and the owner was freaking out. I had removed my dog to the other side of the park so many times I can't count because of her dog. I think she got the clue after the fight. Even though Beau didn't cause it, I left anyways so no other people would hold a grudge on me.

Anyways... every park I've been to doesn't have some one watching. You'd think that the adults bringing their dogs to a public place would have common sense. Ha. Just be the smart one in the bunch, and let the idiot look like an idiot. I'm sure others see his behavior and look down on it as well. They're just not the ones with the dogs being harassed so they don't step up and say anything.

Terri

Posted : 6/30/2006 1:20:32 PM

For the most part, Loki and Odin are great at dog park. But every now and then, Loki will get it into his head that he needs to follow a dog around and bark at him. Some owners think it's funny and some are really annoyed by it. Regardless of how the dog or the owner react, though, I always go over to do something about it. Usually all it takes is a "leave it" or "quiet" and I pet the dog who is being barked at to show Loki that everything is ok. But I would never just let him run around being obnoxious. If he didn't stop, I would make him leave the park.

The thing that surprises me is that there aren't more dog parks who have "supervisors" or some sort of system set up to govern inappropriate behaviour. There have been several times at our dog park where someone's dog will do something that another owner feels was inappropriate and that owner will say "you are never allowed to come here again." According to who? At least at our park, there is no one there to back up statements like that or make judgements as to what is actually "aggressive" behaviour.

Xerxes

Posted : 6/30/2006 3:32:51 PM

cookiemonster,

I had the exact same situation happen with me last night at the dog park. Only I was the other guy with the unneutered male that wouldn't leave the pretty little girl alone. Xerxes was very enamored with this female as she was quite striking.

I handled it much differently than your fellow park companion did. I leashed Xerxes and kept him with me. After 10 minutes on "timeout" I let him back off lead. He again went after the female. I put him back on the lead and we waited until the other dog left.

I realize that having an intact male is a challenge, especially when he "fixates" on one particular dog. So I pay careful attention to what he's doing and which dog's he is with. Not that he starts aggressive trouble, but that I know every dog has a right to enjoy the park without another dog wanting to *hump* or otherwise annoy them.

Same type of situation, different endings. It doesn't have to be all bad in the dog park. It's a matter of what the people are there to do...if you're there to respect others while everyone has a good time,

jones

Posted : 6/30/2006 4:23:46 PM

Dog park ethics and etiquette are rather complex and tricky. In fact, I don't even go there if I've had a hard day because it takes some psychological energy for me to be there, interacting with the other dog owners indirectly through their dogs and mine. I find that social pressure can be a very strong force at dog parks, or at least at our dog park... the "regulars" have rigid, though unspoken rules, and they are enforced basically by shaming the offenders. If someone doesn't pick up their dogs' poop, for example, someone else will pointedly stalk over and dispose of it in front of the owner. Passive-aggressive, yes, but it does keep things in order. Actually I feel that our dog park is a little too strict with its unspoken rules... people frown on many normal dog behaviors, barking, chasing, wrestling - if so much as a playful growl is heard someone will reprimand the dogs. Regulars even correct and scold other people's dogs, which I find irritating at times (though in the case of real fights it can be valuable), since they don't "allow" even minor skirmishes or noisy play.

fuzzy_dogs_mom

Posted : 6/30/2006 4:36:37 PM

I think the main reason dog parks don't have supervision is purely financial. Most cities are lucky to be able to budget for the fencing to create a dog park in the first place much less pay someone to stand there all day and *baby sit*. Every once in awhile someone takes it upon themselves to kind of play *supervisor*but not too often. Security cameras would be a nice touch. [] Then if someone had a real complaint, it wouldn't be just a *he said she said* type of thing.

Joyce

olinda

Posted : 6/30/2006 5:33:40 PM

My story is the reverse. I had gone to the park w/Romeo (who is neutered) and he was playing fine running around w/the big boys; when this standard size poodle came in, it was on, Romeo made a bee line for him, growling, showing teeth and all, which scared me because I had never seen him like that, when the other dog saw the maniac running he rolled over, I yelled I mean screamed from the top of my lungs "down" and thank God he turned around looked at me and down stayed, I walked up to him, told him a firm no took out the leash, apologized profusely to the owner and immediately left the park. The whole way home, I told him how dissapointed I was he had behaved that way and that if he was going to turn into the devil every time that was it no more park. The following day we went back, the poodle was already there we had not even gone in when Romeo was the same, growling, showing teeth, hackles raised, his tail pefectly parallel to the floor and lounging forward, we did not go in, we walked around the trails and when I noticed the dog leaving, we went back Romeo went in and he played like the most angelic little dog. Everyone at the park was surprised he reacted this way because they had never seen him like that before.

We went to the behaviorist and she really did not have answers for me, maybe I needed to have gone to another one, anyway Romeo has never behaved like that again, but still, if I see a lot of confrontation going on or challenging looks off we go, he may be small but he never ever backs down from a fight.

My vet told me it could have been a reaction to his rabies vaccine, sometimes she said makes the dog aggresive? so she gave me some detox water thing...I just sd ok and really did not pay much attention, because if it was the vaccine then why didn't he react this way w/all the dogs, just that one, and to this day if that dog is at the park or comes after us we leave.

Casey

Posted : 6/30/2006 6:28:25 PM

It's scary that I think I know WHO you are talking about and where! All I'll say is.......[:@]

I was tempted to self-neuter him also.