Don't play tug with a dog.

I'll say this..."never" has a very limited place in dogs. Aside from the self preservative variety "never leave a child alone with a dog" "never put your hand inside the mouth of an angry dog" "never step in dog poop"...etc.

BUT having said that. I think IN GENERAL, given your AVERAGE dog owner with the AVERAGE OR COMMON amount of dog sense? This "myth" or standard is not all that harmful to the dog human relationship. IOW I do not think that the average dog in the average home is going to become ill, bad tempered, resentful, uncontrollable, dangerous, or die, etc as a result of NOT playing tug. So to me, like "what do you feed" it's really a non issue and none of my business.

Tug is not one of my favorite games and really none of my dogs are that interested in playing it with me. I do not find it an appropriate or safe game MOST OF THE TIME for my children to play with the dogs, so that's out. Really? It's not necessary in my home for any of us to be happy. It's a "meh".

 

eta: to put it another way I consisder what to do/say like this "first, do no harm"...thin about IF you say something to someone who is spouting off about x y or z and using words like "never" what is likely if the OPPOSITE occured and is it worse than the present? IOW if you start and "tug is okay" campaign (and trust me, "tug si okay in certain circumstances WOULD get shortened to "tug is okay" in no time because that is how people ARE)...and your campaign works, IS something negative likely to occur as a result? Factor in the fact that it is actually NOT an appropriate game or activity for many dogs for many reasons and my opinion is, yes. It is likely someone will get knocked down, become afraid of their dog because "it growls at me", catch a tooth on their knuckle and ditto, allow their kids to play and well, yeah...have 2 dogs that then decide to play together at this and one takes it WAY too seriously and attacks the other, etc etc etc.

*shrug*...meh.

 

 

eta, again!: Oh and in a shelter environ as you mentioned?? I would not be playing tug with dogs I do not know...or initiating it at any rate. Shelters are not the place for potential high intimidation or stimulation type "games" with dogs. IMO.

I don't have a problem with a good controlled game of tug.  I think it's the fact that we have so many pits that some believed playing tug can lead to more serious biting issues in this misunderstood breed.  Adding in a nice "drop it" or "leave it" command would be beneficial to teach these dogs but that requiers some consistency with the training.  I think the main problem is that a lot of inexperienced handlers can't read the dogs signals and don't understand what the dog is doing or how to play.  Then, add in the noise the dogs make when playing tug and it scares some people. Yes, dogs are vocal, just because they are play growing should not label it as an aggressive dog.

Don't worry Georgie, I'm right with you on this battle.  Not only for the tug game but working with some of the dogs on other behavior issues. We are trying to concentrate on imporving our training for the people who walk our dogs.  Training dogs in a shelter setting has proven to be such a huge challange so it's no easy task to get everyone on the same track.  Especaily since we all come from so such diverse backgrounds in understanding dogs.

This myth comes from the whole dominance bull crap, that if you play tug you are encouraging aggression and if you let your dog win they are going to eat your face off.  Total bullocks.

I play tug with all my dogs.  I let my dogs win, that's the point!  There's really no point in me playing tug with my dog if it has all these rules and the dog never gets to win.

OK.  You all are making sense to me!  Lies, I sort of thought that's where they were all coming from.

Amanda, I understand now.  I just wasn't sure why people were just so uptight about it with the pits, but that makes complete sense.

Thanks all.  This was just sort of on my mind lately.

I've heard the same reasoning as Lies - the dominance "bollocks" from people. I agree with everyone above - tug has it's time and place if you want to play it with your dog, not playing isn't going to hurt your dog.

Personally, I play tug occasionally with Timmy - he LOVES It. He also makes some fantastic noises while playing, LOL - so I can understand why someone might be intimidated by their dog making noises like Tim does if they weren't too familiar with dogs in general. I "let" him win all the time (ok, seriously, he just wins sometimes - he is fricken strong with the proper grip). He wins, I celebrate with him, he thinks it's great! He has accidentally gotten my finger or hand when trying to get a grip, and while he has realized pretty much immediately and adjusts, I don't think it would be appropriate for children to play tug with him at all. We have one friend that comes over that Tim just loves - because he will play tug all night long with Tim! He certainly isn't "aggressive" because of it.

right just like some dogs have real trouble taking treats politely, that might be a dog you don't want small kids or frail folks handing out treats to. BUT as mentioned, how many folks out there, aside from the cross section that love dogs enough to spend hours on boards talking about them really KNOW their dogs that well, and KNOW how to correct issues as they arise before they become severe?

I always believe in KISS keep it simple stupid. If you have to go on at length to explain how to do something safely, and explain about what to do if any contingencies arise, it might be best for everyone if you just accept that whatever it is you are explaining, is over most people's heads LOL!

I like your KISS acronym! and....agreed!

KISS - I love it!

We were told not to play tug with Ari, because of her issues when she was a pup. Honestly, with her, her issues were much worse because we listened to well meaning, but not suited for Ari, advice such as that. Also, like others have said, it does a lot of times come out of the dominance stuff. Personally, a controlled game of tug is GREAT for dog and human alike IMHO. For some dogs, it's also a great non-food reward for doing something you are training them to do. Once we started playing tug with Ari, "wrestling" with her (very controlled game), a lot of her behavioral issues were decreased greatly - especially with tug play. Know your dog though, get good solid advice from many sources and draw your own conclusions. One viewpoint is never enough for me, and I wish it hadn't been when Ari was younger. Though I would NEVER recommend people play with Ari like we do with the rough housing we do (that could lead to all sorts of bad things, if your not aware of your dog like we are), but I do tell others that tug is a perfectly acceptable game, when done right.

I would think with a high drive high energy dog like Ari (from what you describe) tug would be a great game!

I am curious as to what others mean by "control" when playing tug? 

I like the KISS theory especially with tug.  When I play there aren't really any rules, other than me managing the environment (for example when I use a ball on a string I hold it in such a way that the dog bites the ball and not the string or my hand, so it's not really a "rule" that the dog has to tug the ball, I just make it the only possible option).  I always let the dog win because most of the time I'm using tug as a way to channel drive and boost confidence.  It's no fun and squashes drive if *I* am the only winner. Barking is encouraged, growling too as it is always the "yeah, yeah mmmm yeah we're tuggin" kind of growl (can't say I've ever had any dog really growl at me during playtime and none of my dogs have ever growled at me for any reason).

After a short time, the dog learns that tug is only possible with the human, so instead of trying to pull the toy away and run off, I have dogs that come back to me and jump on me or will follow me around pushing toys into my legs or my crotch because they want me to play.  Nikon even knows how to precisely place the other end of the tug in my hand.  If he wants to play tug or fetch with his ball he will nudge me off the couch, herd me to the container, and point at the drawer that has the toys.  He has toys scattered all around the house that are the exact *same* balls and Wubbas and Kongs we use for tug or fetch but he knows the toy goes "live" because of me.

I have more rules for dog-on-dog tug than playing with me.  I do allow my dogs to tug with each other and rarely have to intervene.  The most common intervention is with a teething puppy.  Nikon not only tugs but does these head jerks where he tries to rip the toy away.  If he's tugging with Pan (who is teething) and it starts to get more intense I interrupt before he starts the head jerking.  Other than that, the other interventions I can think of are when one dog *doesn't* want to tug (Pan will take a toy and jump on one of the other dogs, shoving the toy at their mouth and sometimes it's obvious they don't want to play so I will get up and play with him or tell him to leave it).

Liesj - for me control in tug means Ari knows that my hands are OFF LIMITS and when I end the game, it's ended. Also, if I say "Leave it Ari" (our command for release the toy) she should. I use that when she gets (rarely these days) those wild eyes that mean her excitement has gone too far and she's going to start biting me in lieu of the toy. Basically, it's just safety measures for me so she doesn't bite me in her excitement because she's a very mouthy dog, particularly when she's excited about something (like her little finger nibbles she does now when we're getting ready to go out). As for the game itself, as long as she keeps her mouth on the toy lol, just about anything else goes. I love her play growl when we tug. If I bat her around some (literally slap, push and shove her around lol), she really loves it and gets growling something fierce! Ari doesn't do the head jerk too much, but it's a blast when she does. I wish we'd started tugging with her earlier. We've since learned she's a VERY physical dog and likes rough play, rough housing and tug. The harder the tug game the better! Our favorite tug toy is this thick rubber toy, with three interlocking circles. They have a nice give to them and have stood up to the most "brutal" of play sessions. All this talk of tug, I think I'm going to go find that toy and give Ari a short little game of tug. She's looking mighty pathetic right now, as I finish up my work day!

 (taking a break from writing an article - about 200 words left - yippeee!)

I can see where in a shelter you would blanket statement say, "don't play tug" , ideal? no but if someone is clueless it is safer IMHO

I've been on and off regarding tug with Bugsy.  He loves it but self- control is not a great trait of his and it was non-existent as a pup.  He can still get so worked up that it is difficult to end the game.  I play a modified tug with him because he is just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too strong for me - I have bad shoulders and do not need the extra aggro.  DH, however, does play tug with him and it is a scary affair, I always have to say "timeout" or remind DH to call for one.  B gets that now although as I said there are still times he takes a while to stop.

B's favorite tug partner is gradyupmybutt's DH - he's a really big guy and B was in heaven, he didn't want to let go for anything, I think he was lifted off the ground several times and wouldn't leave poor Annie's DH alone.  he'd bring the rope over again and again.  It was quite funny.

So in our house - guys can play tug with B with fair warning.  B does play gentle tug with my mom.  And in his defense he has never had aggression or biting issues or bitten anyone in the process of tug, he is just super powerful and relentless. 

Tug is by far, IMO, one of the best physical outlets, games,and training tools that you can have. I use tug for so many reasons with my own dogs and my clients, from just a fun outlet to a good indoor winter workout, to training impulse control, to teaching appropriate play with people, to boosting confidence in insecure and shy dogs. The uses of it are endless, and just this week I have instituted the game of Tug (with rules) to two clients for totally different reasons.

I teach my clients to have a few very simple guidelines with tug:
- You instigate the game.
- You keep tug toys separate from *everyday* toys
- You only play tug with designated tug toys (I do that because I have some dog-clients who are dedicated leash and clothing tuggers in the past, so the rules are clear about when the game is on vs. off)
- The dog must be willing to give up the toy for a treat (and later on, just for the reward of continuing to play)
- You end the game (by giving a cue like "All Done" and putting toy away)
- Young children are not allowed to play the game - I teach them other acceptable games to play with dogs.

Other than that, I use tug a lot in teaching impulse control. I use it for Its Yer Choice games, for teaching a good "on" vs "off" switch to get a dog to get excited, and calm down, quickly and in a controlled manner, and to teach skills in an arousing situation.

I haven't worked with a dog yet (personally) that I would have said that tug would have posed any risk, and just about every dog I have taught Tug with has benefitted from it.

In the end, a good game of Tug isn't about winning - it's about the process. The dogs sheerly enjoy the act of tugging, not the end result. For 99% of dogs, when you drop the tug - or "let them win", they don' run off with the toy. They shake it, and then bring it back to you to continue playing the game. To them, the game is only fun when they get to initiate the tugging again, it's not so fun to be just left with the toy forever. Its only the people who think about winning - the dogs just want to have fun with you!

Apollo loves playing tug, and I love playing with him! We keep it fun, simple, and as a light-hearted game. I've also used tug to get Apollo amped up for dockdogs (tennis ball on a string). I know a lot of people use tug as a reward, too (like agility dogs). A lot of the myths that tug=aggressive dog come from the dominance bull*, and I don't buy it.