I may have to retract my statement and support....

mehpenn

Maybe I should ask this question... after looking at the damage this 80 pound dog did to a 1000 pound horse.. would you leave you kid in a room with it?

why on earth would you do that with ANY dog? or even A CAT? lordy...

You need to read something besides what bolsters your arguement and validates your feelings mehpenn...I am going to to come on out and say it. You cannot truly LEARN if your mind is already made up...you can't. You can only VALIDATE, or skew to fit what you already think you KNOW.

No one here is saying your feelings are wrong...but when you start talking about what you are "reading" and start throwing up posts full of stats that MANY here have seen posted by every PB hater that's come to this place, that's when I want to suggest that it can actually help to read opposing things as well. Many people have made suggestions for you...another one I would suggest would be "How To Lie With Statistics".

What happened to the horse is horrifying.  I looked at the pics and gasped. I hope the horse has a fast and pain free recovery and that the owner of the dog takes responsibility for the damage and for the dog.

I think blaming the breed is an entirely different issue.  I for one don't care if you or anyone likes pit bulls or not.  I personally dislike five times as many breeds as I like and would ever consider owning.  But I just say "I don't like this breed, I prefer this one" and leave it at that.  I don't like Pugs but I'm not hunting for biased statistics and biased anecdotes to somehow justify or explain my dislike.  If you don't like pit bulls that is fine, but I would just leave it at that.

oranges81

I'm sorry Callie, but pit bulls don't lock their jaws.  It may seem like that but it's not possible. The Pit has amazing jaw strength and sheer will power to not let go unless it wants to.

I didn't mean with a lock and key -- but they DO have the ability between their neck/shouldelr strength to simply not allow it to open or close without enormous brute strength from the outside.  It's not like they slip a bone into place or something making any sort of lock mechanism but they DO have the ability to maintain a specific tension.

I also wanted to say -- for mehpenn and all others.  "statistics" are scarey things because they can be so hugely invalid. 

Any time you have a breed that has become "popular" in an area -- particularly when it portrays a certain "tough guy" sort of personna -- you wind up with people owning dogs who don't have enough of a brain TO own a dog.  And in Anne's comment above about adolescents with testicles?  Yeah -- except the problem often is that the "adolescent" is more simply adolescent in BRAIN than physical size. 

Statistics never take the wide range of reality into account. 

I remember a situation here a few years ago where an owner kept a pit ON A CHAIN and they lived next door to an elementary school. 

Yeah -- EVENTUALLY the pit happened to be loose and on it's way "into the house" (not leashed -- an untrained animal supposedly "following" the owner?? Yeah right) and it broke loose, ran into the schoolyard and badly mauled a boy.

The fact that it was a pit was completely beside the point because that dog had been SO abused (the stories went on an on about how kids stopped at the fence every day to taunt the dog) that it's no wonder .... the incident happened at 3:15 **when school let out** so the yard was FULL of hundreds of kids AND ADULTS alll running and screaming in terror.  It was the one little boy who tripped and fell who got mauled.

ALL the kids ran.  ALL the adults ran. 

One would have thought that SOMEONE might have been bright enough to have seen this coming??? That they might have had some instruction for the kids not to 'run' but rather to FREEZE like a tree if a strange dog came at you?  Or shoot -- maybe even post an adult or two near that property to prevent kids from plaguing the dog???

Any time something happens -- whether it's something like a dog bite or a shooting or a national calamity - unfortunately everyone is so interested in the graphic news that sensibility takes a back seat.

mehpenn -- my heart breaks for you.  Yeah, I have dogs who are particularly long lived -- but you don't just "raise a horse for 17 years" -- you expect them to live to be 30 -40 years old.  That's older than a lot of humans.  But they require a LOT of care.  And they are extremely intelligent animals capable of a deep deep bond with their humans.  This is and was tragic for you.

But don't waste your mental strength on feeding your emotions.  It's not going to help, and it could turn you in a wrong direction.  If you have "never had this happen" with other dogs -- then honestly?  You're lucky.

I said above -- I'm from farm stock.  My Dad's people had tons of dogs -- most of them not very nice animals.  They lived outside and when one got hit by a car or a tractor you shrug and get another pup somewhere. 

That's not my way. 

Your communication with your neighbors is appropriate -- and I'm sure it hurts to have a friendship damaged as well.  But it's going to take a LONG time for this to heal.  But hopefully they will step up and deal properly.  And compensate you. 

I will be lifting you up -- this is gonna be a long time healing.  And the emotional injuries of this horse will be even longer to heal.

What an awful shock for you. I can only imagine the shock your horse must have felt. No judgment from me at all. You need to feel how you feel and you deserve lots of support. PS--I couldn't agree with Callie more though. Feed the emotions the right food so they will sustain you and not wear you down more.

calliecritturs

oranges81

I'm sorry Callie, but pit bulls don't lock their jaws.  It may seem like that but it's not possible. The Pit has amazing jaw strength and sheer will power to not let go unless it wants to.

I didn't mean with a lock and key -- but they DO have the ability between their neck/shouldelr strength to simply not allow it to open or close without enormous brute strength from the outside.  It's not like they slip a bone into place or something making any sort of lock mechanism but they DO have the ability to maintain a specific tension.

Any dog has that.  In Schutzhund we call it "setting the grip" (allowing and encouraging the dog to take a full mouth grip and hold a crushing bite).

calliecritturs

I didn't mean with a lock and key -- but they DO have the ability between their neck/shouldelr strength to simply not allow it to open or close without enormous brute strength from the outside.  It's not like they slip a bone into place or something making any sort of lock mechanism but they DO have the ability to maintain a specific tension.

So, no other breed has the ability to bite and hold? There is nothing different about pit bulls that makes them able to "lock" their jaws. Yes, they are strong, powerful dogs. And so are a LOT of other breeds. Terrier breeds and bulldogs are known for their ability to "bite and hold". Once they get ahold of something, they have the tenacity and determination to hold on. It has nothing to do with special "neck/shoulder strength" that only "pit bulls" have.

Spazzy

So, no other breed has the ability to bite and hold?

Spazzy

It has nothing to do with special "neck/shoulder strength" that only "pit bulls" have.

Did I SAY that?? NO.  I **SAID**

"they DO have the ability between their neck/shouldelr strength to simply not allow it to open or close without enormous brute strength from the outside."

I didn't say they were the only .. But come on here -- there are certain breeds built certain ways -- you get a breed that is long, but short to the ground like Luna (MY Luna) and you get a dog with tremendous "torque" meaning she could "pull" far more with less strain than a taller dog her same weight.  But there are other things she's not as strong at because she's narrow in the shoulders. 

I didn't say "only" -- and my Socks was NOT a pit.  She was a mix of at least pit and boxer.  But when you combine certain body traits you get certain abilities and strengths.  One of the reasons herding dogs excel in agility type sports is because they have been, as a breed, bred to be fast on their feet to avoid kicking hooves of bigger beasts. 

It doesn't mean that "only" pits can have tremendous bite power -- but they are muscularly well equipt to be strong.

C'mon folks -- let's not degenerate this into any sort of 'anti-pit' thing -- that's absurd.  EVERY breed has certain things that it's body style, head shape, and sometimes even coat enables them to do better -- or less well -- than another breed.  That doesn't make them vicous or sweet.  But you do have to have respect for your breeds' own strengths and weaknesses. 

I've got a pug who is faster than a greyhound at SHORT DISTANCES.  But her breathing aparatus sucks for longer hauls. However -- that little bitty tiny short snout of hers??  Just try pilling her if SHE doesn't want to take something.  It's like breaking into Ft. Knox!

But with Luna's longer, narrower snout, if I decide to slide my fingers behind her canines and open her mouth she doesn't have the muscle power to do much simply because of the way her jaw and head are aligned and she's not particularly strong in the shoulders into her neck.  It's only when she uses her full length to dig in that she becomes extremely strong (and can lift ME off my feet in a heartbeat). 

Am I going to buy that all breeds can have the same amount of jaw strength? Nope.  I've been in way too many mouths to believe that. 

Try going out to your car (ANY car) and take the lugnuts off the wheels with a wrench 4-5" long.  For most of us that would be next to impossible -- particularly if some shop used a pneumatic wrench to put them ON.  Then go back and get a normal sized wrench or better yet an  extender  about 18 - 24" long and see if there's a difference.  There IS -- it's simple science. 

I think the difference is the prey drive and the tenacity of a pit bull terrier, not the actual mechanics of the bite. 

Liesje

I think the difference is the prey drive and the tenacity of a pit bull terrier, not the actual mechanics of the bite. 

Absolutely. And even THAT, is hardly a PB "thing"...plenty of Akita people I have known keep a break stick on hand, hanging in the kennel. You just have to understand that some dogs have a force of will, and physical strength, that surpasses the relatively puny amount of force even a large human can put out. That is why we have our brains to compensate.

rwbeagles

That is why we have our brains to compensate.

*sigh* yeah, Gina -- that's the "point" I think all of us are trying to make. 

Common sense -- why in heck is it so UN-common?

calliecritturs

oranges81

I'm sorry Callie, but pit bulls don't lock their jaws.  It may seem like that but it's not possible. The Pit has amazing jaw strength and sheer will power to not let go unless it wants to.

I didn't mean with a lock and key -- but they DO have the ability between their neck/shouldelr strength to simply not allow it to open or close without enormous brute strength from the outside.  It's not like they slip a bone into place or something making any sort of lock mechanism but they DO have the ability to maintain a specific tension.

 

Thanks for clarifying what you meant. I just hate the phrase "Lock their jaws" and I didn't mean anything by my statement.