Anybody ever hear of this maniac

loveukaykay,

READ.......
I suggested a Middle Ground rather than extremes.

His methods work. Where did I say I agreed with them?

Suggest you do a bit of work on your reading and comprehension.

I never said you DID agree, you defended it .... THATS what I said. 

Gypsy was taught from the moment I brought her home that anyone could take anything out of her mouth, bowl, crate, etc. My boys were young when she came to us and I wanted to make doubly certain that they would never be bitten by a dog who has the capability to bite fingers OFF without much effort.  She also knows that cats can eat out of her bowl or get in her crate and they are NOT to be bothered.

I have to mention one thing here: whatever happened to making sure your kid leaves a dog alone when sleeping/eating?  When I was a kid (back when Dino lived with Fred!), if a kid even thought about pestering a dog when it was asleep or eating, the kid was warned--ONCE.  The next time, a swift swat on the fanny was administered and the phrase, "I TOLD you to leave the dog alone when he's eating!" was uttered.  End of story--no more pestering the dog.

Gypsy is rock solid around kids.  We spent Wednesday doing tricks for over 150 kids at our summer reading kick off.  I had a pack of liver treats to use and many, many kids handled the treats.If she were a dog with resource issues, this could have been a problem.  We (as usual) had NO problems whatsoever.

Cavowner, there is nothing wrong with TRAINING for those eventualities.  In fact, we all should.  However, especially since children are not around your dogs that much, I do think that what most are saying is that it is NOT terribly responsible not to keep a closer eye on things when they are.
 
I'd remind everyone that we can make our points without resorting to swearing in our posts.
 
I am personally appalled by this person.  That is the kind of owner I am.  And yep, I even look for fun places that my dogs would enjoy going.  My dogs know that they are dogs, WE know that they are dogs, but they are still a delightful part of the family.  PART OF THE FAMILY.  Not little machines who aren't allowed to ever make mistakes without fear of being beaten.

Excellent point, Glenda. And I'm reminded of how Mudpuppy compared it to training horses. How do you physically coerce a 1,500 lb animal that could stomp you to bits if it wanted to?

I think beating a dog is not just unethical and cruel but is ultimately doomed to failure. Some dogs may obey, living a life of fear. Others will rise up against the abuser in self-defense. I would suggest looking at how momma dog trained her litter. She does not hurt them but she does show them what is and what is not acceptable behavior. That is, she may stop play that is bordering on serious but she doesn't stop play in general. She will pick up and corral pups if she senses danger and will get them to the den and then, God help you if you are the intruder.

But I certainly don't see the point of his being bombastic and abusive to people asking simple questions. Even the hotly debated Cesar Milan does not browbeat clients. And I don't think CM beats dogs. He may physically control them and he will step into the middle of a fight, exposing himself to danger. And certainly we've discussed training that is less invasive than even CM.

For some here that don't know about Glenda, she has 6 GSDs and manages and leads them without hanging them by a leash or beating them. And these are rescues, possibly of doubtful breeding. She leads the pack by showing what is expected, providing a regular schedule, separating when necessary, and generally stopping problems before they really become problems.

Then, again, there might be some people who shouldn't own a dog, lacking the time and patience to lead a dog to good behavior and understanding a dog's motivation. For me, my toughest lesson was to watch my own behavior and not accidently reward a behavior I don't want. In elemental pack behavior, good or desired behavior is rewarded with inclusion in the pack, a good motivator for dogs.

I wanted to add one more element to this discussion:  This guy is training for Schutzhund.  Anyone that seeks advice from him is going to get his advice as it pertains to Schutzhund dogs, not companion dogs.  I was really starting to wonder about the guy and why he wouldn't want dogs around strangers at all...he's training for aggression, even though somewhat controlled.  As owners of companion animals, we don't need or want aggression in our animals.  Different philosophies, different styles.
 
My disclaimer is this:  I don't advocate, agree with nor would I tolerate someone treating their animal in the ways that he advocates.  And I feel for any dog who's owner does.

Jones a BRILLIANT post

 
Beat me to that comment, deb! 
 
 
I am amazed that people still regard positive reinforcement training as insufficient, and think it's ok to force a dog's compliance.  IMHO, you aren't much of a trainer if you need to do that.  When you think about it, how do trainers at zoos and marine mammal exhibits get their animals to behave???  You can't exactly hang a killer whale, and you sure won't have much luck swatting a lion with a newspaper.  []

I started a thread about Tylers participation today in the MS Walk.  This boy was so far beyond awesome....TOTALLY focused on the walk to the point of ignoring the ducks that flapped in his face quite literally, and the squirrels running around him.  I TOLD him that this walk was really important and that he needed to be extra good, and he was GOLD.
 
This is a foster who was whelped in my home, went to another home for a couple months where at BEST he was neglected and we seriously suspect some abuse.  He came home the end of January and admittedly I've been a little soft with him.  ALL my dogs are trained with positive reinforcement and Tyler is no exception, but, I haven't been as firm on stuff like waiting for an invitation to the sofa as I am with the others.  Little stuff that I don't see as critical so long as the OFF is immediate.  So, Tyler could have the potential to be a little stinker.  He isn't.  He's great.  And anyone who could have seen him today would agree.
 
Tyler had no interest in the homemade liver treats today.  None.  He was working his tail off and doing it for nothing.  Yep, he got tons and tons of praise, but he was soooo, sooo focused on his job that I'm not sure he even heard the praise.
 
I don't wanna hear that +R doesn't work.

Want on earth is wrong with that?

 
Well, for one thing, it doesn't take into consideration the breeds that were developed for guarding and herding.  They are not as likely as Cavs, which were bred for companionship, to be friendly to strangers.  Dogs are pack animals, and, as such, their natural inclination is to be social with their own pack, and suspicious of others.  The breeds that have been selected as companions or hunting dogs tend not to be as reserved with strangers as the dogs that were bred to protect either humans or their livestock.  I don't think it's necessary to have a dog that loves strangers.  What's necessary is to have your dog be well trained and under your control.

Wow!! I am new hear and I can't believe this guy and what he stands for.  I know that some people may agree with him and listen to his advice but boy am i glad that I don't live anywhere near you!  I can only imagine one result of beating your dog or child for that matter that dog or child will be aggressive as well.  Like the old saying of monkey see monkey do.  If a man is a child molester the chances are higher that he was molested as a child.  If a man beats his wife and kids chances are he was beaten and watched his mother get beaten as a child.  If your dog fear bites chances are he was beaten.  What if you beat your dog and a child is in your home being rather loud and waving arms as most kids are rambunctious and the dog bites them out of fear of getting beaten?  I would much rather use the method of reward training i guess and take my chances.  That is what works for my dogs and kids and i'll stick with it.  In fact i have let my children be a part of the training with my dogs so the dogs know that the children are to be obeyed as well as the adult humans.

ORIGINAL: cavowner

loveukaykay,

READ.......
I suggested a Middle Ground rather than extremes.

His methods work. Where did I say I agreed with them?

Suggest you do a bit of work on your reading and comprehension.

So your point is that his methods exist (obviously) and that they work?  OK.  I guess my response to that is--so? 

I have a horse that we couldn't get into the trailor for a long time.  One time, when we were having trouble leaving the show grounds with her, a guy saw us having trouble and slapped her on the butt twice, the second time she hopped in right away.  I was shocked, as this was ever so un-Sheena like behavior.

I later found out she got in so fast because the guy had a nail in his hand that he jabbed into her when he hit her.  She got in that time, however, the next time she was just as bad, if not worse, as she now associated even more bad things with the trailor.

Did it work at the time?  Sure.  Did it do more harm than good?  Probobly.

oops.

What an idiot, I feel so sad and sorry for the dogs that have to be trained by him.