I Have GREAT dogs

grab01

Firstly, I'll note that I'm not certain any of my dogs would do more than bark.

In this state, you woudln't want to encourage more, really. Here in Texas YOU can be found guilty of a 3rd degree felony if your dog commits grevious injury to another human being. Now...in theory this law would not apply here...but again...I would not want my family or my dogs being put thru that NOR at the mercy of a justice system that has proven itself again and again to lack common sense and be utterly based upon media perception at times. Nor would I care to be taken to court by an organized Church....even if they have NO CHANCE of winning...who needs that in their life?

I am glad everyone is okay...and frankly some of the religious bashing and making fun going on here is pretty sad. If this had been a different situation and yes a different person posting most here would have a vastly different reponse. I recall someone actually being JUMPED ON because their Pits killed a coyote and poor coyote and mean doggies, but,  because these human beings are a certain religion "oh well they deserved it". That is borderline depressing.

 You do make a good point Gina and I remember those pit vs coyote threads.

I'll be honest by starting out in saying that where I live, you and your dog would be sued up the ying-yang, and there is a high chance your dog would be euthanized, for biting another person in that manner, even if the folks that got bit were doing something illegal. Hand guns, and any gun except a hunting rifle at hunting time, is explicitly illegal in my province in Canada, so I realize we live in a slightly different society (altho I must say I think doG every day that guns are a non-issue here).

I agree it's a shame that there are folks who will go to all ends to try to push their beliefs/products/services at you, and I would definitely get the law involved if something was that persistant that bordered on stalking or harassment. But I would be apalled if my dogs ever went after another human in that way, especially if (and I say if here, because I have a LOT of respect for Amanda and her dogs) one of them was a Schutzhund-training dog who decided to not only pursue, without cue, somebody banging on a door (not approaching to you as a threat), but actually went back for a *cheap shot* afterwards. That is the kind of story that I find extremely scary when it comes to Schutzhund training especially, as I have a couple of situations too close to home in which inappropriately trained dogs in protection or Schutzhund made horrible decisions that cost a lot of people stress and pain, and the dogs, their lives. I would have a lot questions about my status as a dog owner if my dogs took it upon themselves with a situation like that, regardless of the breed involved, and especially with a breed that is already disciminated against too much.

I'm really glad that everyone is okay, and as much as they broke the law, I really hope that the gentleman who was taken to hospital is also okay because banging on a door is a bit extreme to me to warrant such measures and aggression, and I know I would personally be ashamed if I found out my dog had seriously injured a person who was banging on my back door. Attacking me physically or hurting me would be one thing, but banging on a door? Different ballgame altogether.

And I'm also glad that you're trying to do everything in your power, Amanda, to try to keep these people away, and I wish you the best of luck with that. I also wish your dogs luck and hope they don't have to suffer any consequences because of it. I also hope that your dogs do not have to suffer any repercussions from what happened.

rwbeagles

I am glad everyone is okay...and frankly some of the religious bashing and making fun going on here is pretty sad. If this had been a different situation and yes a different person posting most here would have a vastly different reponse. I recall someone actually being JUMPED ON because their Pits killed a coyote and poor coyote and mean doggies, but,  because these human beings are a certain religion "oh well they deserved it". That is borderline depressing.

I have to agree.  I happen to work with two very wonderful people who are JW's and the tone of some of these posts are offensive to me. 

rwbeagles

...but,  because these human beings are a certain religion "oh well they deserved it". That is borderline depressing.

Just to make myself clear- I don't think those two deserved what happened because of their supposed religion (I still think that was a scam), but because they were trespassing.  I don't think Amanda could have made it anymore clear that trespassers are not welcome on her property.

A dear friend of ours in FL grew up JW and he did tell me to just say that I'd been something....similar to excommunicated.  Although I respect that these people are doing what they truly believe they are meant to do, I do wish that they would respect MY right not to have to defend my beliefs.

To make MY position perfectly clear, I don't care if it's a JW, Bible Baptist, Jew, Catholic or whatever, just kindly don't get in my face and try to push your beliefs on me.  Please don't disrespect me by continually returning to my property when you've been told that you are not welcome.

Those who have said we would have jumped a newbie, yep, you are probably absolutely right.  Perhaps the difference is with someone who has BEEN here for years, we "get" the person because we know them.

In the state of Ohio the law used to state that even if your dog was inside your home and a trespasser gained entrance, you were still liable for any injury your dog inflicted.  IMO that was crazy because I would hope that my dogs would inflict great harm in that instance.  But while I hope the people in this instance did not suffer any major harm, anyone who would walk into a back yard with no trespassing and dog signs posted should have their head tapped for echos.  Good job protecting your family Cher and Bevo!

glenmar

Those who have said we would have jumped a newbie, yep, you are probably absolutely right.  Perhaps the difference is with someone who has BEEN here for years, we "get" the person because we know them.

That may be so, and probably is so. That doesn't make it right. It certainly isn't something we'd accept if the tables were turned and we were the newbie. Just food for thought.

Kim_MacMillan

But I would be apalled if my dogs ever went after another human in that way, especially if (and I say if here, because I have a LOT of respect for Amanda and her dogs) one of them was a Schutzhund-training dog who decided to not only pursue, without cue, somebody banging on a door (not approaching to you as a threat), but actually went back for a *cheap shot* afterwards. That is the kind of story that I find extremely scary when it comes to Schutzhund training especially, as I have a couple of situations too close to home in which inappropriately trained dogs in protection or Schutzhund made horrible decisions that cost a lot of people stress and pain, and the dogs, their lives. I would have a lot questions about my status as a dog owner if my dogs took it upon themselves with a situation like that, regardless of the breed involved, and especially with a breed that is already disciminated against too much.

Kim, agreed. I am sure it won't be a popular view...but I do agree.

I am actually thankful that Cleo was outside when the man busted our door and came into our home because had she followed they might well have run her over with their car, or beaten her to a bloody pulp right in front of me...or gotten angry enough to come BACK.

I have great respect for someone who handles a dog with the potential to back up it's bark, in such a controlled way as Amanda handles her dogs (Bev has a UD, people, almost a UDX, and she never talks about it.... Cher is also highly trained, and hasn't "come out" yet). I certainly don't have the composure or training ability to put that kind of training on a dog with that kind of drive!

I have NO respect for a person who ignores signs, closed gates, and trespasses on private property, and also suspect that it is a scam. Has nothing, at all, to do with religion. Good dogs, Bev and Cher!!!

jennie_c_d

I have great respect for someone who handles a dog with the potential to back up it's bark, in such a controlled way as Amanda handles her dogs (Bev has a UD, people, almost a UDX, and she never talks about it.... Cher is also highly trained, and hasn't "come out" yet). I certainly don't have the composure or training ability to put that kind of training on a dog with that kind of drive!

 

Jennie, I am happy you feel that way.

For what it's worth, I too think that people who train their dogs to high levels are amazing individuals. In particular the COME, STAY, and DOWN commands are impressive. I also saw a demo on TV once...during a K-9 competition that entailed watching a person believed to be a suspect...without biting until told to do so by the handler. It was amazing...the dog seemed to be really drivey as well. The guy mentioned also that it's important that the dog not simply charge in because they might have to discharge their weapon and they'd hate to hit their own partner doing so. They were also trained not to bite a person standing still or showing no threat...

You are right...dogs are amazing in what they can be trained to do, and the people who can train a dog to those high levels are truly people to be respected.

glenmar

A dear friend of ours in FL grew up JW and he did tell me to just say that I'd been something....similar to excommunicated.  Although I respect that these people are doing what they truly believe they are meant to do, I do wish that they would respect MY right not to have to defend my beliefs.

To make MY position perfectly clear, I don't care if it's a JW, Bible Baptist, Jew, Catholic or whatever, just kindly don't get in my face and try to push your beliefs on me.  Please don't disrespect me by continually returning to my property when you've been told that you are not welcome...

That's the same way I feel.  And I belive the term is dis-associated.  Funny, a friend of ours grew up as a JW in Florida, too. 

oranges81

The Doberman is bred to protect their family and that is exactly what they did.  In hindsight, would it have been better if they just did a bark and hold, probably. But even then, the guy probably would have tried to run and still end up bitten.

I own a Doberman and while we don't train in SchH to that level (I only have two BHs on G), I witness others on a regular basis who train for SchH, French Ring, PSA, etc with Dobes, GSD, Mals, etc.  Cher's training is still in progress, but a trained dog wouldn't have bitten during a bark and hold until commanded to, regardless if the man ran.  Edit to add (because in my haste, I didn't earlier) This isn't a training situation.  This is one where natural Doberman temperament took over - and they would have passed their Doberman Working Aptitude Evaluation with flying colors, I suspect (if they haven't already.)

Coming up on a situation like that, the dogs never had the chance to be commanded to bite or not - Amanda wasn't aware there were even people in her yard until she got to the back and saw the commotion, with the dogs engaged.  As she said, she somewhat assumed it might have been coyotes.  She commanded them off the man, Bevo complied, Cher still in training did not comply completely.  She'll work out her liabilities with her attorney.  ANYONE, JW, accident victim, etc, who disregards multiple NO Trespassing signs has accepted liabilities of their own.  Meanwhile, my nephew in McKinney TX was arrested and charged for firing a gun in his own backyard.  Laws apply differently across the state.

All that being said, I appreciate others who have noted that disparaging these individuals for their religion (rather than the stupid decision to ignore the No Trespassing signs) is really distasteful.  I would hate to be a Jehovah's Witness and read such things on a forum that is supposed to be friendly to all people of all ages of all religious denominations, etc.  Please let's keep this clear of nasty remarks about JW's.  Statements of facts and experience related to this don't need to include inflammatory adjective regarding any religion.

 I just want to clarify that I do not paint all JW's with the same brush. But the ones I have had past dealings have been horrible people with no respect.  As I stated in my post there is one JW that comes for coffee and we debate. 

micksmom

rwbeagles

...but,  because these human beings are a certain religion "oh well they deserved it". That is borderline depressing.

Just to make myself clear- I don't think those two deserved what happened because of their supposed religion (I still think that was a scam), but because they were trespassing.  I don't think Amanda could have made it anymore clear that trespassers are not welcome on her property.

Same