A Serious Situation, Thoughts Needed

JackieG

noblewoman

Was this dog ever abused? I can't imagine why he would be so fearful of people unless he had been.

 

This is why socialization is so important.  Most extremely fearful dogs are created by owners who don't understand dogs and the importance of early socialization.  I seriously doubt the dog the OP is talking about was ever abused. He was a beloved member of the family.  It's a common misconception that for a dog to be this fearful it must have been abused.  Not true in most cases.

Thanks for clarifying JackieG.

As I stated I don't know tons of stuff about dog behavior, so It's good to know that he wasn't abused. 

I'm glad you're giving this guy a chance, but I am also worried for you (if it happens) rehoming a dog with a bite history, especially since it was twice on a child. Maybe it's a state-by-state issue, but when I owned a dog that I knew had bitten humans the responsibility of future bites could come back on me. (At least this was my understanding) more than just legal trouble, there was more to consider. Even if I didn't end up responsible for Roscoe's future bites, how would I feel if he disfigured someone for life? (He was a GSD/cattle dog. Eventually his problems were so overwhelming for HIM it was kinder to put him to sleep.) Maybe the fact Harley is a small breed can be his saving grace (that and being rehabbed by you, of course!) I worry about dogs who draw blood on children. Children are SO unpredictable, they'll come running to pet your dog on a walk faster than you can tell them to stop sometimes. This post didn't make too much sense, I apologize. What a tough spot you're all in :(

Jewlieee

JackieG

It's a common misconception that for a dog to be this fearful it must have been abused.  Not true in most cases.

 

This is worth repeating and emphasizing! people are very quick to call abuse, but the more likely cause is lack of socialization.

Worth repeating AGAIN except I will add that people so often don't take into account a dog's temperament and genetics.  That's something that you can't change, no matter how much socialization and training you do!  For example, my Kenya is a working line German Shepherd and she is very soft, sometimes skittish, and lacks confidence and courage.  She was extensively socialized, not only as a puppy but her entire life.  She was never once abused and in fact has lived quite the high life.  She has a high level of training, has many titles and has competed in many venues.  But, she's a nervy dog.  She has a fairly high trigger threshold but she doesn't recover easily when stressed.  Nothing anyone can do will change that.  I have a friend who recently got a 15 month old working line GSD that had basically been kept in a kennel and received no socialization or training.  The first time out at the Schutzhund club just a week after getting the dog, this dog was very confident, happy, social with dogs and people, showing no apprehension, fear, or aggression.  The dog appeared better socialized than many dogs who have had extensive neonatal stimulation and socialization.  Why?  Genetically, she's just a better dog.  No matter what she's going to be a more confident, mentally sound dog.

I did get his full medical history released to me today, and I got clearance to speak with the vet at any time for any further questions. When he was in at his vet, he did have a full blood workup, urinalysis, and full checkup, so we know where his baseline is and nothing was awry right now. He didn't have a full thyroid panel done, that is the only outstanding test that may or may not be considered.

Fortunately, a bite history where I live is not an immediate death sentence, depending on the situation, especially when it's an isolated incident with a specific trigger (at this point in time anyhow) although it still takes careful consideration as to the future of any dog. I am meeting with some wonderful folks at the Humane Society tomorrow to discuss some things with them. I am not making any decisions without consulting some trusted peers, regardless of what the end decision is.

Harley and I enjoyed a philly steak/cheese wrap this evening for supper, and he did approach on his own to take several pieces of steak from my hand. Right now he's relaxing in the living room with the expen across, and my guys have free run of the rest of the house. He's at a distance, but seems a *little* more relaxed and is interested in watching the dogs anyway.

Relaxing and interest is a good thing!  Yay, progress...Harley, you'll be just fine with the right family.

Currently, we live in a land managed by baby gates, close close close supervision and lots of treats for proper behavior(for both dogs and kids). We manage everything very very closely, and sometimes I long for the days before the constant vigilance. I wish that T had understood my warnings about what Crusher was capable of, and not dismissed them as nagging.

Like Doug, I had time up at the Hospital that night to analyze what had happened. Crusher scruffed Kali cause she was bugging him. I'd seen him do it a million times to Onyx when she wouldn't settle down and he was done playing. He'd grab her by her scruff and shove her to the ground, she would immediately calm down and he'd release her, no big deal. Only with Kali, she had no scruff to grab. He simply tore into her skin. But with only 3 light puncture holes, no broken bone, no tearing, barely any bruising, I KNOW that he released her when he realized that he was hurting her. This dog eats frozen chicken carcasses on a regular basis, his jaw strength is insane. The damage he could have done makes me shudder. THAT was his saving grace. His size and power, and what could have been, but wasn't.

Still, there's not a day that goes by that I let my guard down. And if I learned my lesson, Tyler learned his twice as well. My strategy is supervision. Tyler's is complete and utter separation. I let him do that when I'm not home. I don't trust his ability to read the dogs signals enough for supervision to be enough. I've committed myself to making sure that nothing like that ever happens again, and while I'm still sure I can prevent it, sometimes it would just be nice to relax and watch my dog play with my kids. I never will. At least these parents won't have to live with that, the rest of what they have to live with will be enough to haunt them. Trust me. What you are doing for them is absolutely incredible.

Now, if I may, I'd like to just share a little as to what I think is Harley's problem now. I'm sure socializing has something to do with it. That much is obvious. And adapting to new surroundings, when your old ones have suddenly vanished, is hard on anyone. But if Harley got what Crusher got that night...well...

Ok, first of all, nobody hit or harmed Crusher in any way. Not really. But he was shunned. Extremely. Back then, his crate was in the porch, since he hated to be in the house at night and he still slept in a crate at night and when we were gone. When he bit Kali, he was crated, immediately. Tyler opened the door and Crusher went flying into his crate(of his own free will, it was his safe place and he was scared I think) and he stayed there. I came home, flew past him into the house, grabbed Kali and took her to the hospital. After we came home, he stayed where he was. He was not let out until the next day. I was terrified to let him out. Not afraid of him. Just afraid that I would hate him, that he wouldn't be my Crusher anymore. That I would see some monster when I opened the door. In a way, I hoped I would. That would have made my decision easy. But when I opened the door and he slowly walked out with his head down, not like some dog that had just been crated for over 12 hours, but like someone walking death row, I couldn't hate him. I took him outside and he walked down the steps and onto the lawn where he squatted and peed for like an hour, poor thing, then he slowly turned and walked back to the steps with me and came inside. I think he knew he was bad for biting Kali, and I hurt him when I ignored him and left him for so long. If, after that, I had sent him away, I think it would have made him a different dog. As it was, it took him a few days to act almost normal with us again.

If Harley was "shunned" at all while the family rushed about taking off for the ER, and not treated warmly as he normally was when they came home, and then was just sent away, well, my heart breaks for him. Maybe I'm personifying too much. But that's just my opinion. I do wish you all the best though. And Harley too. And the parents of this child. I know how they feel.

My thoughts go out to Harley, and the child as well, a bite on the face is no fun!

Gobie did a similar thing and his saving grace was being a small dog.  Eventually he learned to tolerate kids but he did not like them.

ANyway, I hope things work out for him.

Thanks for your post, Jezebel, and your concerns. Let me be clear, though, that the family did not want to deal with the issue, and to be honest I feel that they shouldn't be.  Not once did it happen,but twice, in the same room in the same circumstances. I did not talk the family out of their dog - it was between immediate euthanasia (which they did not want), and an attempt at a better life. He did damage a baby - severe lacerations, severe swelling, and a totally black eye. From even a small dog, to a baby's face (the worst place it can happen, unfortunately), this was no small threat. This baby was a moment's notice from losing an eye forever.

Even *if* this dog could have been managed, the truth was, the dog was miserable. For ten months. As soon as the baby awoke, the dog would get up and leave the room, and only reappear later when the baby was clearning *up* and not going anywhere. You can *make* something safe, but you can't make the dog happy. And this dog was clearly very, very unhappy, ever since the baby arrived on scene. So even if they had wanted to try to *make it work*, the dog would still have been the one to suffer for it.

To be honest, the family did the responsible thin, and in my mind for that situation the only right thing to do - to finally realize the needs of the dog, above their own desires, and to try to give the dog another chance in another life. And that is the best any family can do.

Obviously, this is a very different situation from ours, but the similarities are what make me emotional. Regardless, I'm glad you are involved, for everyone's sake...though maybe not your own, as I'm sure this is extremely tough on you. Continued good thoughts that everything turns out as it should.