Greta just got her nose popped.

It sounds like you had a really rough day. That sucks. Animals can be very frustrating especially when you've already had a long day. It kind of sounds like you were on your last nerve. A nip could have definitely tipped me over the edge as I have lots of children running around my house... if it's okay to nip Mama, why isn't it okay to nip the one that's smaller and more defenseless? Also, I'm not sure what solution would have worked for you..except for giving her even more playtime, which to me seems like buying a toy for a child just because he threw a temper tantrum. Certain trainers say not to use a crate as punishment since it's supposed to be their "safe" place, so I wouldn't have put her in there. Hopefully tomorrow's a better day!

Edit- Just noticed.. is there something particular about the "wait" command that would work when the "space" command didn't? Or would you just be repeating commands until one of them worked?

tiffy

 I own a herder and she knows that if teeth come in contact with my skin=GAME OVER! I get up and completely ignore her. Being ignored is a fate worse than death for her. I would never "pop" her on the nose because shes very sensitive to my moods and would completely shut down.

That being said I understand not all dogs are the same.  I can also understand how something like a nip might result in an instinctual swat.  Still it wouldn't be something I would personally be proud of or want to come bragging to on the forums.  When it comes to the alpha showdown you might also want to do some measuring of your jaws and canines because I have a feeling if you and Greta get into a mouth fight she is going to easily come out the winner in that contest.

mehpenn

There is a difference between a pop and a hit.

There is?  If you struck her with your hand, it was a hit. 

The thread title made me initially think that there was an accident.  Poor Greta...she couldn't help contain her energy level...she was simply excited.  Two things come to my mind, well...maybe three.  The command for us is "wait" to let them know that they will be released...but just not yet and they have to be sitting down calmly before they can get out (or come in, whatever the case may be.)  I'm sure you know this...and maybe "space" is your command for that situation.  Ignoring them when you first come home will help to get them into a calmer state too.  Then, using the "wait" command to allow more calming before releasing them.  Thirdly, and most importantly...their energy must be released.  I feel its just physiological...their just bubbling with pent up energy that must come out.  Take them out, run them by playing a hard game of fetch to release that energy. 

That said, I don't think that snapping on a leash and going for a run is the ideal way to deal with a nip. Heck if one of my dogs nipped me and I immediately took him or her for a walk, I'd be getting bit hard 40 times a day by the end of the week.

I think its best just to chalk this one up to experience and know that next time your schedule is messed with like this, prevention is your best defense. More exercise before you go out, a little less water and food. Come home ready to play with the dogs instead of jumping straight on the computer. With kids myself, I know its hard to just dump the kids inside and take the dogs out, but maybe have a marrow bone or kong ready for when you first get home, just to take that extra edge off, until the baby is situated somewhere safe for 15 minutes. That's all I can offer.

 I was more suggesting going for a walk before the energy escalated to a nip :)

 same here, Grab :)

I try NOT to put my boys in situations where things get out of control.

CoBuHe

The thread title made me initially think that there was an accident.  

 I've "popped" Tootsie in the head while throwing her Cuz. Her feelings were hurt, but she quickly recovered when I giggled and said "Sorry, bad toss."

When I come home, no matter how much the boy has been exercised, he is beside himself with excitement at seeing me. We have a routine. I sit and he is allowed to wiggle, kiss and bounce all over me, when I stand and tell him enough he is content to wait until I change because he knows that when I am done we will head out if able to and he can blow off steam, or we do something in the house. He does not bite, or nibble, because he knows that this is unacceptable behavior. He was taught this early, and it has and will always be reinforced.

I stopped at a pet store tonight to pick up the usual, and as always I stopped to look and play with the puppies (humane society does adoptions from this chain), there were 3 lab mixes in the playpen. They were very excited as puppies can be, but after a few minutes of "no" and removing my hand with no touching, they all learned that biting me did not get them the scritchies or petting they wanted.

You have been stressed out, you have changed the dogs routine, and while that is not a fault, you need to find a way to step back and allow your dogs to get that moment of excitement out of their system. Maybe after things calm down for you some more training and reinforcement in not nipping and what is acceptable. Popping or hitting is really not the answer.

Oh and Tiffy, Kord knows all about the cuz and head pops, heck I got whacked in the head on a mis catch and it hurt. And tonight of all things I had to clean a bloody nose on the brute, he did a face dive into the side of the stone on the garage trying to catch his Frisbee.

 Glad I'm not the only Cuz abuser!

sharismom

mehpenn

There is a difference between a pop and a hit.

There is?  If you struck her with your hand, it was a hit. 

 

 

 Yes, there is. A pop is a pop... a tap, not meant to cause pain, just used to get their attention... a hit, is intended to cause pain and is done so with enough force to cause pain.

mehpenn

sharismom

mehpenn

There is a difference between a pop and a hit.

There is?  If you struck her with your hand, it was a hit. 

 

 

 Yes, there is. A pop is a pop... a tap, not meant to cause pain, just used to get their attention... a hit, is intended to cause pain and is done so with enough force to cause pain.

 I saw from your other thread that you have horses, and as someone who got into dogs after having horses for many years, I can see where you might "pop" the dogs nose in response to a nip as this is something very commonly done with biting horses.  While I will pinch the nose of a rude, biting horse (or a recreationly mouthy horse) in certain circumstances if I can deliver immediately after the bite (I don't like striking of any kind as it can often lead to head-shyness), I don't use physical punishment for nipping with the dogs. 

First of all, with many dogs it just encourages them unless it really actually causes them physical pain.  Have you ever seen dogs play with each other?  Loooots of biting involved.  I've seen one of my dogs grab the scruff of my other dog's neck and pull him across the floor during play (with the pullee thoroughly enjoying himself), Jack has nicked Sally's ear during play, causing it to bleed, and have her not miss a beat.  Further more, your dog was demanding attention, and guess what--she got attention.  Even if is was "bad" attention, she still got what she wanted at the end of the day.  Then if you do get them hard enough to get their attention, they often don't connect the punishment with their behavior, they connect it with you hand or mood (moms stressed, I might get hit)--not something you want.

 When dogs offend one another they generally don't go straight to the physical.  I have seen both of my dogs ignore each other when they are being annoying.  Even a verbal correction tends to be used before anything turns physical.  If Jack gets nippy with treats, a loud, yelpy sounding "OUCH!!" helps get his attention.

I do agree with the NILIF, and I would not give her attention of any kind when she is demanding it.  If she is over the top overstimulated, withdraw attention.  Turn your back, walk away, go to a different room.  Don't give her attention until she has calmed herself, even if that means not "greeting" her until you have let her outside to blow off some steam.

sillysally

 I saw from your other thread that you have horses, and as someone who got into dogs after having horses for many years, I can see where you might "pop" the dogs nose in response to a nip as this is something very commonly done with biting horses.  While I will pinch the nose of a rude, biting horse (or a recreationly mouthy horse) in certain circumstances if I can deliver immediately after the bite (I don't like striking of any kind as it can often lead to head-shyness), I don't use physical punishment for nipping with the dogs. 

First of all, with many dogs it just encourages them unless it really actually causes them physical pain.  Have you ever seen dogs play with each other?  Loooots of biting involved.  I've seen one of my dogs grab the scruff of my other dog's neck and pull him across the floor during play (with the pullee thoroughly enjoying himself), Jack has nicked Sally's ear during play, causing it to bleed, and have her not miss a beat.  Further more, your dog was demanding attention, and guess what--she got attention.  Even if is was "bad" attention, she still got what she wanted at the end of the day.  Then if you do get them hard enough to get their attention, they often don't connect the punishment with their behavior, they connect it with you hand or mood (moms stressed, I might get hit)--not something you want.

 When dogs offend one another they generally don't go straight to the physical.  I have seen both of my dogs ignore each other when they are being annoying.  Even a verbal correction tends to be used before anything turns physical.  If Jack gets nippy with treats, a loud, yelpy sounding "OUCH!!" helps get his attention.

I do agree with the NILIF, and I would not give her attention of any kind when she is demanding it.  If she is over the top overstimulated, withdraw attention.  Turn your back, walk away, go to a different room.  Don't give her attention until she has calmed herself, even if that means not "greeting" her until you have let her outside to blow off some steam.

This is such a good point. Flame suit on, but I don't think that a non-pain-inflicting gentle smack of some sort (intended to surprise, not injure) is a terrible thing to do. That said, usually it's also not effective. As SillySally noted, if Greta was amped up and trying to play, a "pop" (or whatever) was really playing right along with her, not actually a punishment. They either don't understand it as punishment (if it's gentle) and actually think you're rewarding them by playing back along with them, OR they don't understand it as punishment (if it's painful) they think you're just a mean and unstable person. So neither is really what you're going for.

If you watch 2 dogs together, where one wants to play and the other wants to be left alone, the quieter dog will often turn away and "freeze" as a signal to be left alone. This is something that seems to work really well in human-dog interactions, too - at least for me! If the dog is bouncing around like a nutjob, I've had the most success with a short, sharp, "HEY!", crossing my arms (don't want any dangling limbs to get chewed on or mistaken for engaging in play), turning away, and just ignoring the hyper dog. If possible, leaving the room. Then after a couple of minutes have passed, if the dog's brain has seemed to return, some self-control obedience commands (like "stay";) can help. If the dog listens then, the dog gets LOTS of praise and rewards, and maybe another walk to work off the crazies. The moral of the story needs to be: acting nuts and nipping gets you NOTHING. Controlling yourself and playing nicely gets you lots of fun and attention. :)