So angry

I think we all feel terrible about what happened to the rabbits and especially how it affected your daughter.  I didn't share this earlier because it's a memory I would like to forget.  When I was a kid, my sister had rabbits in an outdoor hutch.  We didn't live in the country and they were in a fenced backyard.  One morning, we found all of their feet chewed off.  Something had pulled their feet throught the wire on the bottom of the cage.  It was a terrible sight and I can't imagine the terror the rabbits went through. 

Lessons like this are terribly painful and make us feel guilty because in hindsight we see that we could have prevented a tragedy.  I do understand your anger at the dog's owner.  She could have mitigated a lot of the anger by just doing the right thing.  Pay for the rabbits and apologize, profusely and promise to keep her dog contained in the future.  She obviously doesn't care about her dog or it wouldn't be running loose.  No wonder she doesn't show the least concern about what happened.  :(

ETA that I would have been just as furious as you, if this happened to me.  I never meant to diminish the fact that your rabbits were the victims. 

 I am so, so sorry about the rabbits being killed.  If that had been one of my dogs I would have been horrified and heart broken and probably would have ended up paying for the rabbits and cages and then some.

As far as keeping prey animals outside---well, all of my horses have lived outside (rather than in a barn most of the time) and I can assure you that if if a dog was trying to attack my horses--especially my older mare--I would shoot it if necessary.  I would do all I could to avoid it, and would feel like the scum of the earth for having to do it, and would surely cry about it--a LOT, but I'm not having my elderly horse maimed and am not going to spend hundreds of dollars building the Fort Knox of horse fences because some yahoo can't bother to buy a tie out for their dog.  If the gelding I used to have was the horse in question.....well, it would be a very, very sorry dog without my intervention (that horse was VERY dog aggressive).

JackieG

I think we all feel terrible about what happened to the rabbits and especially how it affected your daughter.  I didn't share this earlier because it's a memory I would like to forget.  When I was a kid, my sister had rabbits in an outdoor hutch.  We didn't live in the country and they were in a fenced backyard.  One morning, we found all of their feet chewed off.  Something had pulled their feet throught the wire on the bottom of the cage.  It was a terrible sight and I can't imagine the terror the rabbits went through. 

Lessons like this are terribly painful and make us feel guilty because in hindsight we see that we could have prevented a tragedy.  I do understand your anger at the dog's owner.  She could have mitigated a lot of the anger by just doing the right thing.  Pay for the rabbits and apologize, profusely and promise to keep her dog contained in the future.  She obviously doesn't care about her dog or it wouldn't be running loose.  No wonder she doesn't show the least concern about what happened.  :(

ETA that I would have been just as furious as you, if this happened to me.  I never meant to diminish the fact that your rabbits were the victims. 

Thank you. I probably wouldnt be mad if she did the right thing. i would still be upset, and we are working on doing a few things to the rabbit pen. I got some 7 foot tall fence panels and a gate to go with the 6 foot stockade fence I have. those panels will replace the 4 foot section with the gate that we have, that i am pretty sure most dogs could jump.

Jewlieee

jennie_c_d

 So, you suggest that people only keep a number of rabbits that they are comfortable keeping and caring for inside? My rabbits REALLY enjoyed being outside, in their presumably safe pen. They were not nearly as happy indoors, though they did have run time and interaction, just as they'd had outdoors.

 

*shrug* I just don't understand having a pet that is outside caged in a small pen. Feel free to educate me.

 

 

Mine were never in a small pen, so I wouldn't know. They *were* happier in their outdoor pen, as emsels says, with indoor play time and romps in the yard on nice days. Being indoors, they had to be crated when nobody was nearby to watch them. Rabbits, as you know, can be destructive, and they can easily become seriously injured or killed by doing their normal behaviors (mine was blocked, seriously, once, when she ate the carpet in one corner). If my dogs were unhappy being indoors most of the time, I'd certainly allow them more time in a secure, outdoor enclosure.

 I do not have rabbits..having a terrier means that (indoors OR out) the poor rabbit would be harassed. But, while many rabbits are happy as house buns, some are not. And some house rabbits enjoy getting out in the yard once in awhile to get some sunlight, even if just for a short amount of time.

I'm of the mind, though, that if a pet is in their yard, they should be safe from someone's rogue pet. Even a prey animal has a right to be in their own yard. A dog owner should be containing their pet and, if the dog escapes, the owner should take responsibility for whatever damage their pet caused while out. Some pets are crafty about escaping (although it sounds as if this dog wasn't kept in a fence at all) but in that case, the owner should still be mature enough to accept responsibility for what their dog does.

I would certainly take the dog's owner to court for the damages.  Many times it takes a hit to the wallet to convince someone to be more cautious

Most horse owners I know around here have at least a strand of hotwire running around the *outside* of their fences (if the whole fence isn't electric), to keep dogs/coyotes/critters out of their horse paddocks. Should it be the dog owner's responsibility to keep their dog contained? Absolutely! However, if they are irresponsible, it's not the dog owner who will suffer most... that's why IMO at least it's as much a concern to fence creatures OUT as it is to fence the pets in. Should it have to be that way? No. But as was mentioned, if you fence out unruly neighbor dogs, you're also fencing out coyotes, mountain lions, hawks, rabid raccoons, whatever... it's just much safer. (Sort of like the "looking both ways at a green light" analogy - SHOULD you have to be worried that someone else is going to run a red? No. But that "should" won't protect you in case of an accident, so....

I know what you're saying about the kids running about, but I still think you should run a little hotwire. You can get chargers that you can turn on/off - turn on when you leave, turn off when you're in the yard, etc. And with a solar charger it shouldn't be too expensive. Also, I don't know how old your kids are, but I would think they would be able to learn to avoid the hotwire pretty quickly... it's pretty common with horse fencing, as I mentioned, so there are lots of ways to minimize the risk of shocks. And even if someone were to, say, lean on the fence accidentally, the shock is enough to hurt and frighten but not enough to do any damage. So I would very seriously think about it. I have some friends who hot wired essentially a duck cage for their outdoor ducks. There's a wooden run-in shed, then chicken wire, then a few strands of hotwire around the chicken wire. They turn the charger on every night when they lock the ducks up before bed. So far it's kept them safe and sound, and they live in a rural area with a lot of wild animals. So definitely something to consider.

>p>If you have a Tractor Supply near your house, that might be a good place to start talking to people about electric fencing. What you'd need, what voltage, how much it would cost, etc.

We all have our own passions, but I truly can not understand "outdoor pets" at all.    Outdoor cats kill birds and other wildlife.  Outdoor rabbits spell 'f-o-o-d' to the entire world.

A friend of mine who does rabbit rescue told me once that one of the reasons why rabbits have such HUGE drives to procreate simply is because historically bunnies are just plain FOOD for virtually the whole food chain.  There is just about no animal that eats flesh (whether omnivore or carnivore - full or part time) that doesn't just love rabbit-lunch.  so the way they have survived thru the ages is simply to be prolific.

But that translates to mean that any rabbit kept "outside" (or even one kept on a Florida room or sunporch that is 'mostly' enclosed) simply looks like a grocery store to any predator. 

Unfortunately I've helped clean up more than one 'mess' and it's devastating for all concerned.  Completely so.

But I also didn't know, until better educated my my friends in rescue, that rabbites actually can be housetrained, as well as leash trained.  You can clicker-train a rabbit just like you can a dog.  Seriously, yes you can.  It takes a bit more to bunny-proof a house than to puppy proof one.  And yes, if you have a dog who is super prey-driven you can't allow them to co-exist unchecked. 

But rabbites, like birds, can be easily scared -- and even the most secure pen may not be emotionally safe enough for a poor bun with a dog trying to find a way "in" to get it.  Can you even imagine how scarey that would be -- seeing a dog repeatedly lunging at you?? 

It's all scarey, and I've even taken my turn staying up all night to nurse tiny lil baby raggits whose Mom has been too traumatized to feed them. 

Good luck -- but it would be my vote to move them inside if you can in any way manage it.

Cita

Also, I don't know how old your kids are, but I would think they would be able to learn to avoid the hotwire pretty quickly...

Lol as someone who grew up around horses and thus around hotwired fences I second this.  Doesn't take much to learn to respect the wire.  It also can add a lot a nice amount of protection from predators.

 

 As for outdoor enclosures often it is a matter of space.  I could have a far larger enclosure for rabbits out on the acre of land than I could ever cram in the family's tiny house.  Chickens also equal lunch to pretty much every predator alive but I somehow doubt as many users would be up and suggesting all chicken owners should keep them indoors only.  An animal living outdoors does not mean it isn't just as loved and given tons of attention like an other indoor pet.  Or perhaps all you non believers want to go to a local horse ranch and tell all the people there that they don't love their pet horses...

 

I'm just not certain how one can have 20 house bunnies... Rabbits can in many cases be housetrained, certainly, (although they DO love to chew as well) but I think in large numbers that would be pushing it

ETA that I don't have outdoor pets, nor do I have rabbits. But a single pet rabbit is much different than keeping numerous show and breeding rabbits.

I would be fuming. Such a casual attitude she had to what her dog did to you and your daughter is really appaling. A decent, kind person would have apologized until tomorrow and offered to take your daughter shopping for new rabbits. What a horrible woman. The dog should be taken away from her. She obviously doesn't care about him. It would be terrible, however, if she started chaining the dog. That would only make him aggressive and dangerous.

If she walked him and gave him proper attention he wouldn't want to run away every five minutes. The best thing for the dog would be to find a new home.

If I were you I would definitely pursue this as far as I could. I'm so tired of people being allowed to get away with whatever they want and not being held accountable for their actions.

Have you asked the police if there's anything they can do? Can they pay her a visit?

Just be careful that she doesn't start doing anything crazy to retaliate. There are too many psychos out there.

I wish you good luck and I hope something is accomplished. I hope you keep us posted.

I think it is awful that some people are upset with the OP in this situation. Remember she did not invite this dog into her yard to eat the rabbits. She was a responsible owner, the rabbits were housed in her yard, in their cages. The dog and the dogs owner are at fault here. 

Making excuse for a breed being an escape artist is wrong. Saying that the animals don't belong outside to begin with is wrong. The dog might have done the deed, but this is the dogs owner's fault and no one else's. Really, this is like saying you can sue the double arches for handing you hot coffee. Blame the victim, for shame.

It is not always feasible to have all the animals that we love indoors where you all assume they are safe. House fires happen, houses are broken into, nature destroys homes everyday. Yard gates are opened, cars smash into fences, and 2 members of this board know first hand that coyotes will do anything to entice or get a dog out in a perfectly controlled environment. To assume that this situation could have been avoided by keeping the animal inside as opposed to outside is ludicrous. Things happen. Does not make it easy to live with, but that is life.

I have a rabbit. I adopted the rabbit because it was running loose in the neighborhood and we have a high stray cat count. It lives in a cage on my back porch. He never comes in the house because while he is a domesticated rabbit, he had been living wild for some time. We can pet him and feed him and enjoy him, picking him up though is questionable, he is still not very sure about that. And it never would have worked for him to be in the home, I was not worried about Kord doing damage, I was worried about my cats. I know that they would kill him in a New York second if given the opportunity. The cats were here first, so the rabbit becomes porch rabbit. He enjoys his porch, he has safety within reasonable expectations, he gets to run around his large cage, we sit and talk to him, feed him, clean up after him and he has is own damn section in my personal garden. This makes me a bad owner? Really? Why?

As for shooting the dog, I would if it was threatening something of mine. But here again it was assumed that the OP was going to do this. While it is an option, when I read her post, I read that AC told the owner that this was option, and I am sure they said that to scare them, I never read anywhere that the OP was actually considering it.

 

 

Krissim Klaw

 As for outdoor enclosures often it is a matter of space.  I could have a far larger enclosure for rabbits out on the acre of land than I could ever cram in the family's tiny house.  Chickens also equal lunch to pretty much every predator alive but I somehow doubt as many users would be up and suggesting all chicken owners should keep them indoors only.  An animal living outdoors does not mean it isn't just as loved and given tons of attention like an other indoor pet.  Or perhaps all you non believers want to go to a local horse ranch and tell all the people there that they don't love their pet horses...

Well put. Personally I don't see anything wrong with rabbits living outside in a rabbit hutch, if they are well cared for and spend time with humans like the OP's rabbits do. I think it would be nice to allow a little more flexibility here - what works for some people (i.e., indoor rabbits) doesn't work for others (i.e., the OP). Just like some of us here wouldn't DREAM of NOT allowing our dogs to sleep in the bed with us... while for others (like me) that is a very bad idea (like the bed exacerbating Rascal's resource guarding issues).

Dawn, very well said.

grab01

 I do not have rabbits..having a terrier means that (indoors OR out) the poor rabbit would be harassed. But, while many rabbits are happy as house buns, some are not. And some house rabbits enjoy getting out in the yard once in awhile to get some sunlight, even if just for a short amount of time.

I'm of the mind, though, that if a pet is in their yard, they should be safe from someone's rogue pet. Even a prey animal has a right to be in their own yard. A dog owner should be containing their pet and, if the dog escapes, the owner should take responsibility for whatever damage their pet caused while out. Some pets are crafty about escaping (although it sounds as if this dog wasn't kept in a fence at all) but in that case, the owner should still be mature enough to accept responsibility for what their dog does.

I would certainly take the dog's owner to court for the damages.  Many times it takes a hit to the wallet to convince someone to be more cautious

OT but just as a by the way: I had a terrier that lived with hamsters and guinea pigs for YEARS w/ no problems :-) My sister has 2 terriers and seventeen rabbits; also no problems :-)

 I have an Italian Greyhound, a Cockatiel, two kittens, and MAJOR problems. It depends, completely, on the individual temperament of the dog. Jewel is a sighthound, through and through. She will climb, leap, and destroy things to get to prey.