"If we can't have the dogs chained to the tree, what's the point of having them?"

ORIGINAL: sooner

I am sorry, I can't comprehend this. Someone loves their dog and treats it well, but would re-home rather than bring it inside or build a kennel?

Isn't this statement saying that if someone would rather leave a dog tied out than bring it into their home or put it in a kennel can't love their dog? Am I reading this incorrectly?

ORIGINAL: loveukaykay

Why do you consider it punishment to have the dog inside?

I wouldn't consider it punishment.. my dogs spend quite a bit of time inside. But my parents and many I know would rather find anothe home for their dog than bring it indoors.. it's just the way they were raised. Dogs have their place and that place isn't inside.

ORIGINAL: mehpenn

Isn't this statement saying that if someone would rather leave a dog tied out than bring it into their home or put it in a kennel can't love their dog? Am I reading this incorrectly?

Yes.

In response to your original "my parents would suffer because of it.. and would probably have to find another home for their dog." - I am saying I can't comprehend re-homing a dog they love instead of complying with the law.

But it doesn't even matter. This doesn't apply to them.

And really, what does my opinion even matter? And why can I not express it? These people felt there was a reason to pass this law and I agree with the law. I think it will do more good than harm. But that's just what I think - nothing to get so fired up about, I'm not attacking you or your parents or anyone else, just stating my opinion.

ORIGINAL: sooner

Tethering dogs outside for long periods leads to substantial behavioral and health problems, in addition to subjecting the dogs to suffering and psychological damage."


"virtually every dog who spends a significant amount of time tethered will suffer some temperament problems. "


"Leaving a dog on a chain and ignoring him is how to raise an aggressive dog. Aggressive dogs can't distinguish between a threat and a family friend, because they are not used to people."

Have these statements been scientifically proven? I'd guess not.. I'd guess it's just a private survey conducted by an animal rights group.
In my opinion saying "virtually every dog will suffer some temperment problems" is a general statement. Obviously that's not true. We've had two examples of cases where this isn't true, here tonight.. angl012778 and my parents dog.. and I can list more, if you'd like. But I can't list a dog that does have temperment problems as a result of being chained or tied.

Hooray to The Town Council for passing the law to make it illegal for dogs to be tied to a tree and not in back of pickups unless tied securely.  However, the fine should be higher with jail time included. 

ORIGINAL: sooner

I'm sorry I don't know which comment your rant is referring to - but I didn't make any statement that was an absolute or even a generalized one. I said "any dog in almost any situation" if that was even the one you were referring to - and I do believe that any dog could be negatively affected by being outside 24/7 - an opinion that is backed up by a lot of evidence, both anecdotal and scientific.

 
Definately agree.  Go to the website of just about ANY reputable breeder and send them a puppy request stating that the dog will spend most of it's time (20 hours a day IS most of its time) and see what kind of reponse you get.  99.9% of the breeders would give you the "no thank you-look somewhere else."  Why do you think that is?  Is it because they think that tying out is just such a dare good idea, or is it because they do not think that such a situation would make a good home for their pup?  There are some breeders who make you sign a contract that states that the dog will never be tied to an immoveable object.  Are these breeders ALL animal rights wackos?  Or could this be because they know something about dogs?
 
If a pit bull owner would rather rehome their dog to a good indoor home rather than not tie them out GOOD.

ORIGINAL: mehpenn

Hav ethese statement sbeen scientifically proven? In my opinion saying "virtually every dog will suffer some temperment problems" is a general statement. Obviously that's not true. We've had two examples of cases where this isn't true, here tonight.. angl012778 and my parents dog.. and I can list more, if you'd like. But I can't list a dog that does have temperment problems as a result of being chained or tied.

Those quotes were directly from the articles linked to in that post. I didn't research the writers credentials, in fact I just posted the first few that popped up out of the hundreds Google provided, but I assume they have some kind of reference point for their publications; probably first-hand or scientific knowledge.

I can think of a few people just on this forum who also have first hand experience with dogs that have temperament issues as a direct result of being chained - along with some of the dogs in the referenced articles, and the hundreds of dogs that end up in rescue because of lack of socialization or aggression issues as a direct result of being chained (or otherwise neglected).

Edited to add: "virtually every dog will suffer some temperament problems" is worlds different than "every dog will suffer some temperament problems"

"virtually every dog will suffer some temperament problems" is still a true statement

What a great law!
 
... I *HATE* that people feel that way, about chaining their dog to a tree [:@]

I really dont understand people who tie their dogs up all day. Over here in Australia some people leave their dogs outside all day, not chained up because generally everyone has a fence, even this makes me sick. I understand if you work all day or something and your dogs get a little bored in the house but why get a dog to leave it outside all the time!!!! [:'(]
 
I also think its stupid that some older people think dogs are not allowed inside. Why do they think this?????? [:@] Centuries ago people lived outside too, we ate raw meat and hunted. Does this mean we should do it now... no. Does used to live outside and roam the streets they were never tied to a tree.
 
People should not be allowed a dog if they are going to leave it outside or outside on a chain all day. You cant bond with it the same way, its impossible. We dont live outside so to go out and see the dog is an effort. It just isnt the same as having the dog with you all the time. Chained dogs are sad dogs and I think the new law is great it should go all over the world.
 
 

For the first 6 years of Jake's life, he was an outdoor dog. For the first half (I don't remember when we got our fence up), Jake was on a cable tie-out, and then a chain when we got tired of constantly replacing the tie-out (Jake's favorite game was wrapping himself around the apple tree, sitting, and then wailing until someone came to rescue him. But he knew darn well how to untangle himself, lol). Then we removed his tie-out/chain when we got the fence up and he seemed a bit more happy, less barking. But then it wore off and he got bored again and barking ensued. So for another few years we put up with calls from neighbours (one in particular, a jackass who shan't be named) and once or twice that same neighbour called AC on us. Fortunately for us, AC couldn't do anything because she (the person who came) said Jake's yard was actually quite good. Food, water, shelter, shade, large yard, etc. And Jake does not bark constantly like the neighbour claimed, he would bark 3 times, pause for a couple of minutes, then bark a few more times, then pause. And so on and so forth. Not like the many other dogs on the same block that start howling away when someone so much as steps foot on the alley behind their fence, and the howling continues until the person is 2 blocks away (at least I can still hear it when I'm 2 blocks away).

But then Jake tore his ACL when he was 7 (to be exact, it was June 14, 2005). The family had previously agreed that Jake would be moved indoors when he turned 8, since that is considered "senior" in our family, but I've noticed Jake had been getting sensitive to the weather since he was 6 (on a "normal" weathered fall day, he would be shivering). So he got his ACL surgery, lived indoors for 4 weeks (in a crate no less, somewhat cruel to some people, but it was mandatory). Then he got to spend more time outside of his crate, increase his exercise, and with it, learn to live indoors. He wasn't learning about living indoors, since he'd come in every now and then when he was living outside, but when he was healing from the ACL surgery, he was learning how to spend so much time indoors. For a while after he was healed (well, healed enough to walk around the house for a half-hour or so without a leash or belly-support), he would constantly hang around the back door, waiting for someone to come along and let him outside. So I started teaching him that indoors was better. I wouldn't say anything when I let him out to poop and pee, but I would praise him when he came indoors (for years, everyone automatically said "Good boy" when he walked outside). Now he's adjusted to living indoors and doesn't like to be outside for longer than 10 minutes (just enough time to poop, pee, and get up-to-date on what has happened in "his" yard over the past 24 hours). Leave him out longer and he'll start to bark (also trained him that if he barks, I'll come rushing to let him in).

Attitude-wise, I don't notice a real change between him living outdoors and him living indoors. But you can tell he definitely likes the idea of sleeping on plush beds (I fashioned a bed for him out of abandoned couch cushions to help his arthritis, which hit him when he was 6, plus he likes sleeping on my brother's bed, which is pretty much a mattress on the floor.). And he realizes his crate isn't any different than his doghouse outside, except it's warmer and my scent is just above him (I have a tall bed, tall enough for his crate to fit underneath, so it's dark and "safe" under there for him). And as someone else noticed, he gets 24/7 interaction with his family, even if we're not here, in which case he smells our scents on everything and is reminded of us. And to boot, we have 3 cats that he loves (though only 1 of them loves Jake in return, the other 2 hate his guts). But again, attitude-wise, he's not much different. Still doesn't like snuggling, is still independent, loses his temper easily (probably part of that aggression-thing that was mentioned earlier, due to his frustrations over the years), and still has some fear issues (due to OTHER things that I won't get into). But I'm working on him and we're making progress.

And I know this is getting longer, but another plus to having him inside is the chances of him getting sick are much lower. Right before he tore his ACL he contracted tapeworm, which was treated. Then a few months later he got it again.THEN he tore his ACL and stayed indoors for a month, with the exception of going outside to poop and pee (and then we went to the FRONT yard. I think he got the tapeworms from worms/bacteria/whatever-it-is from the soil in the backyard). But it seems now that the tapeworm has returned, due to us letting Jake spend more time outside in the backyard (it's nice and warm out and Jake isn't objecting to staying out for an hour or so in such weather). Plus I worry about West Nile Virus and that dog flu that was around last year and seems to be making a return.

And just what is the point of having a dog if you chain it to a tree 24/7? Makes me sooooooooooooooo mad![:@]

Sara HATES being in the house. If we are home and inside she whines and tries to run out as soon as the door is opened.
 
When I run to the store or somewhere in town, Sara is outside. If I am outside and Sara is inside she will pace the house and run to  every window so she can see me. She does not like being inside. She wakes me up every morning at 6 am to bring her outside and she does not want to come back in.
 
When Sara is outside she is on a lead that is long enough for her to move about the whole yard. I put 2 together. She has a dog house and a canopy set up just for her. It is never so hot here that she shouldn't be outside. She also has a kiddie pool filled always.
 
Last year I went camping for a week. I could not bring Sara. My neighbor took care of her. She said as soon as she came in the house to take Sara out she bolted and would not come back in. So she let her stay out in the day and brought her in at night.
 
I have a neighbor to watch over Sara while I'm gone. Like, this Saturday I will be away for the day, so Sara will be outside. I would NEVER leave Sara alone outdoors for a day.
 
But she is one dog that does not mind being chained. She will run if she is not chained. She likes to visit the dogs across the road and thats as far4 as she goes, but I don't want to see her hit by a car, so she is chained. Most of you know me well enough to know that I love Sara with all my heart and I would never neglect her. She is much happier outside. I also do not have air conditioning in the house so it is much nicer in the country breeze.

Everyone is entitiled to their opinion.
Some people just don't like or want  or are able to have a dog inside. That does NOT mean they don't love or care for their dog.  Nor does that mean they are bad dog owners or shouldn't own a dog.
I think it should be personal preference. And I feel each case should be judged individually.
It is unfair to punish/fine everyone who keeps their dogs in the yard on a chain or tie out based on those who abuse that type of situation. Period.
Yes, I agree the law will help some... every law helps SOME... but I feel it will make it too hard on those who can't or won't bring their dog inside, more so than those who will actually be helped by it.
I say don't be surprised it the shelter in that town becomes over populated rather quickly because of this new law.  Because trust me, not everyone feels the same way we do... and there will be lots of people who will feel, based on their beliefs, they are being forced to give up their family pet... because to some, a house dog isn't an option.

And just what is the point of having a dog if you chain it to a tree 24/7? Makes me sooooooooooooooo mad!

ORIGINAL: Auburn

Amen I don't understand why you need or want a dog to leave it alone outside all day!

And what the heck did I just do  that made my answer come out as a quote? lol