My "trainer" Train Wreck

    • Gold Top Dog

    My "trainer" Train Wreck

    Monday night, I attended an obedience class with a new, potential trainer, at our training center.  She has 6 UDX dogs to her credit, & had did ok in the "lessons" that she gave our head trainer.  Our head trainer was aware that she was more "hands on" and correction oriented than our other trainers, but we do have people who like to train that way, so she decided to give her a try.  I was asked to take Cher through the class to see, first hand without our head trainer present, what the class would be like, & to see how she communicated with people in the class.  The class was filled with Cher & I, along with 5 other dog/human pairs.  (Everyone there was an experienced "regular";)
     
    I was was not expecting much when I was told that choke chains were required for her class, but I went along with it.  Cher is trained on a dead ringed, choke chain normally, so it really wasn't that big of a deal, but I am not a fan of forcing people to use that method.
     
    Anyway, the entire class was a train wreck.
     
    Highlights included....
     
    * Her showing up 20 minutes late for class, & then taking another 15 minutes to find the paperwork that she needed.  It was supposed to be a 7-8 class, & it turned into a 7:35 start time.
     
    * She gave no explanation of where heel position is or any suggestions of how to get your dog there other than to jerk it around by the collar, & collar pop it until it got there.  It was a beginner's obedience class, so I asked where heel position was, & was answered "Aren't you paying attention?  Just look at what my dog is doing."  I was relatively nice about telling her that an explanation, along with using her demo dog would be most helpful.  I got an eye roll & huge sigh out of the deal, but no explanation.
     
    * She showed us how to force our dogs into a sit by lifting them by the choke chain until they sat, & how to step on the leash & choke them into a down.  (Which did not work, btw.) 
     
    *She showed us what "proper" heeling looked like with one of her dogs.  Unfortunately, every time that her right arm swung by her side, the dog flinched & ducked it's head.  When I asked why the dog was head shy, & looked fearful, I was told to "Shut the !**! up, pay attention & mind my own business."
     
    * Because of the late start, Cher was already tiring.  I had got her out of her kennel at 6:50 & started playing focus games with her, so that she would be ready to go at 7.  By the time that we started at 7:35, she was done.  I don't expect her to work for that long.  When I was asked "Why are you dealing with her ***?  You need to snap her back to reality."  I told her that Cher is a 7 month old puppy, that she had been working since 6:50, & that she was now tired even though class was finally just beginning.  I was told to "Smack her on the butt & sides with your leash some.  That'll wake her up."
     
    * When I used Cher's tug toy to reward her for proper position, she walked over & slapped my hand like I was a two year old child.  She told me, under no circumstances was I to "bribe the dog with toys or food."  I told her that I don't expect my dogs to work for free any more than I expect myself to work for free, & that I like to use rewards to keep them motivated, & enjoying training.  I was told that "Dogs are not to be rewarded.  They are to work because I said that they were going to."  At this point, Cher was getting antsy, & decided to bark at the woman.  She responded by announcing that "This little bitch needs to learn who's boss.  Give me that leash." while trying to take the leash from me.  At this point, I was DONE with the crap.  I made it very clear that if she touched my dog or her leash, I was going fix it so that she would be eating her meals for the next 6-8 weeks from a straw.
     
    Finally, our head trainer came down from her office upstairs, where she had been watching the class, to break us up.  Because she was in the office, in an attempt not to be noticed, she did not get to hear the exchange, but she saw that things were getting heated, & came down to diffuse the situation.  After hearing how the "trainer" was talking to me, our head trainer made her aware that I was the person who taught the puppy classes at our center, & that she would not be teaching at our facility.
     
    I am still in shock that someone would actually rely of fear & intimdation to train dogs, & to teach humans.  In the past year or so, I have changed my stance on corrections.  I am ok with using some corrections, if they are warranted & handled fairly.  I do believe that correcting a dog should only occur when the dog fully knows & understands the command that you are giving.  I think that correcting or using force to get a behavior is counterproductive.  I just can't see how you can develop a confident, happy worker, when you are forcing it to do things.
     
    Anyway, I've heard other people's "trainer" horror stories, & I've always wondered to myself "How does that happen?".  Now, I know.
    • Gold Top Dog

     Oh. My. God. I hated my puppy class for Simba but that was NOTHING compared to this. Poor Cher, poor all other dogs apart of that horrible 'training'. If someone EVER said something like 'that little bitch' to my dog, I would be throwing punches.

     

    Seriously my mouth is hanging open in shock.

     

    Edit: The whole teaching them how to sit is ridiculous. Sort of reminds me in the puppy class when they kept insisting on pushing Simba's butt down to get him to sit. If they bothered to wait a few seconds he could've done it himself. :|  Some people should never be trainers or heck even own dogs.

    • Gold Top Dog

    wow. 

    punkchica321
    Seriously my mouth is hanging open in shock.

    Me too.  

    What a bit@h.  So she really thinks that she can talk to people that way - let alone treating their dogs that way!  That's ridiculous.  I can imagine how hard it was not to hit her.  What were the other people in the class doing?  I am assuming they were as shocked as you were? 

    • Gold Top Dog

     Very little shocks me, as you might imagine, but I was absolutely dumbfounded reading this that there are actually jerks in the world who still practice that form of intimidation (and seemingly don't mind intimidating the humans either).  The sad part is that if you have a bunch of newbies in a class, they might feel that's the right thing to do because they are hearing it from a "trainer" (I use the word loosely here, because such people are not trainers, they are tyrants).

    • Gold Top Dog

    Wow!  I can't believe that there are still people out there who train their dogs this way!  Especially people with titles on their dogs.  Positive training seems so big now, that I would think it would be very difficult to find someone who uses corrections to that degree.  My trainer used to use corrections, many years ago.  She is now all positive reinforcement.  She realised that the corrections were seriously hurting her relationship with her dogs and moved away from that and into positive reinforcement.  She is not always nice to people (she's pretty blunt about when you are doing something wrong), but she treats the dogs great.

    I hope Cher wasn't traumatized by that woman!

    • Gold Top Dog

    holy crap!

    The sad part is that someone, somewhere, will probably hire this idiot woman...

    • Bronze

    Wow.  That woman should not be allowed around dogs let alone be instructing others on how to train them!

     Sorry to hear you had to go through that.  I am surprised you lasted that long withoutspeaking up.  It's probably better you did though, but I have less patience and would have been on her case from the time she showed up late.  I am assuming you are paying for this so time is literally money, and she should not be allowed to waste either of yours or your puppie's.

     I couldn't help thinking about the training scene in Marley and Me and imagining that woman in this situation though. Stick out tongue

     

     

    • Silver

    O. M. G.

    The whole thing is just crazy. Honestly, I don't know how I wouldn't have went after that woman. If someone came over to me and slapped my hand, I would have thrown a punch. And, then to try and take the leash from me, I would have wrapped it around HER neck and yanked on it a few good times. See how she likes it.

    I'm telling ya, you're awesome for handling it the way you did. I wouldn't have been able to do that.

    • Moderators
    • Gold Top Dog

    BEVOLASVEGAS
    * When I used Cher's tug toy to reward her for proper position, she walked over & slapped my hand like I was a two year old child.  She told me, under no circumstances was I to "bribe the dog with toys or food.

    I tried to think of a response to this.    I don't know what to say.  

    I am not a trainer, I just have worked with a couple of dogs, and I've been blessed with having Rags and Piper  as puppies who wanted to learn and were eager to do things my way.  I would rather take twice as long to teach something than use fear or force to get a behavior.

     

    BEVOLASVEGAS
    They are to work because I said that they were going to.

     

    And on the last day she said "work", and  behold, there was work !

    • Gold Top Dog

    Dear god, Amanda.  I thought one trainer I had was a walking nightmare when she brought out prong collars to put on my Papillons but O. M. G.!  Wow, I'm speachless on this one.  Good thing that Cher has you there for her & the puppies have someone besides her to train them.

    • Gold Top Dog

    BEVOLASVEGAS
    When I asked why the dog was head shy, & looked fearful, I was told to "Shut the !**! up, pay attention & mind my own business."

    Right there I would've demanded my money back, probably make a scene too, and walk out. Nobody talks to me like that, especially someone I'm paying. And NOBODY treats my dogs like that. Ever. Ugh. I'm sorry you went through that ordeal.

    • Gold Top Dog

    OMG!  I am dumbfounded!  That lady had no clue who she was dealing with....  She is lucky she got out of there with all her limbs intact and that doenst mean from Cher!

    • Moderators
    • Gold Top Dog

    pure insanity - thankfully it was a test with experienced people

    I have used several trainers here and a friend has used several more and only one of those (one I used) was worth anything.  My friend had a first class on Sunday and was told her dog needed to be shown who is boss (Campbell is the dog) and she needed a prong collar.

    Another trainer that is "popular" in my neighborhood makes everyone use both a prong and an e collar.  Mind you none of the dogs she has worked with are over 20lbs.  I talk to people gently about how that isn't necessary or a good idea and they seem to believe that because Spot sits all is good.

    There are a lot of worthless trainers out there and I am always envious of those of you that have access to good ones.

    Glad your place gave her the boot but she'll turn up some where

    • Gold Top Dog

     Wow..  just wow.

    Well, I'm glad she failed and won't be hired!  Smart of the head trainer to do that kind of test first.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Good thing it was YOU testing her, since you will not be pushed into bullying your dogs like some owners will if they don't know any better.

    If someone like this showed up at our Schutzhund club I don't think she'd last 5 minutes and would be told to leave in some very colorful language.  No wonder so many UDX dogs look so flat and hopeless, they are just being squashed by these types of trainers.  We had some UDX people come to our Schutzhund club so they could give us a UDX demo (it was cool) and our trainer could see if he any insight.  Within seconds the dog (bench style Lab) that was supposedly having "problems" looked like a totally different dog.  The only "problem" was that his natural drive was being squashed out of him instead of encouraged and molded and praised.