Guard dog

DumDog

One of two things will probably happen... call me a fatalist if you want.. but its either going to go BACK to the seller .. or get put down because its such a dangerous weapon. if it goes back to the seller then chances are it will be sold all over again. 

If it's part of an estate battle, I doubt either one of those will happen, except in the case that the seller might be used to sell the dog to someone else with the profit going to the estate.  Euthing the dog makes no sense whatsoever in this context - it's worth $$$$.

 i dont mean at this moment as the estate battle rages on. i mean after all is said and done. that is IF neither spouse wants its.. or girl friend.. or who ever.. at this point i care more about the dog than the idiots causing this shenanigan. i WANT to be wrong for the sake of the dog.

ETA one thing i'm confused over... if the dog was GIVEN to someone...... then is it really the judge's right to take it? but if he gave the dog to her as a way to keep it from being taken then .....??

I'm not a lawyer, but my elementary understanding tax laws is that "gifts" in value over certain dollar figures (I think $10,000?) have different criteria.  Perhaps it depends on what/which source actually funded the purchase of the gift in the first place?  If the husb & wife own the source of funds and the husb used it for the gift w/out the wife's knowledge, then that affects their taxes so maybe she has a right?  No clue - any tax lawyers out here?? 

Also, I'm guessing this is not dissimilar to when a spouse starts giving away assets in order to hide/save them from being drawn into the assets of the estate in a divorce (a big no-no).  Things like cars or jewelry or artwork are often "gifted" as a way to avoid being frozen in a divorce, which judges do not look kindly on, so, I'm guessing a dog is no different if it's worth that $ amount.

 i've never been divorced so i've never had a reason to learn any of this....  but i think i get whats going on now....  lol if my husband tried to pull that stunt HE(not the G/f) would need the personal protection dog...

i still wonder though, just where do these animal assets get placed during situations like this?

FrisbyPI

Liesje, Imagine if you got paid $$ for each and every hour of training and work you do with your dogs--that's how these companies set their prices, is my guess. (I know that's not how most people here think about this, but I think that is how the corporate/for profit crazy corporate world probably looks at it.

Actually, I think a lot of the price inflation comes from the "brokering" aspect of these dogs.  That can be a big business, importing dogs for normal or even cheap prices, and then reselling them to clients, trainers, and other agents.  Importing dogs can be tricky, brokers make it relatively easy but keep a good chunk of the change for themselves.  Most of these estate dogs are show line dogs, which carry a level of prestige and cost 2, 3, 4 times as much as a working line dog that's actually ten times better for the job.

I personally cannot ever imagine training someone else's dog, or training my own dog with the intent of selling it.  It's a concept so foreign to me.  There are many people in GSDs, especially the west German show lines, that have other people train their dogs.  They often get "sent to Germany for their titles".  I have never been comfortable with this even though I have close friends who do this.  I train dogs because I love my dogs and love to train, money has nothing to do with it.  I spend probably a few thousand a year on my dogs and all the training and travel, so I can't imagine only doing it for profit.

Each police force is different, but I do know someone that breeds, brokers, trains, and sells police dogs.  He sells mostly "green" dogs meaning they are past baby puppyhood and have some foundation work done to determine that they have the right abilities for the job, but the majority of training and finishing is done by the handler.  Many departments cannot afford to pay these prices for "trained" dogs, especially considering the majority of these "executive" dogs are show line dogs.  There is someone in our club with a narcotics dog and she is training it herself.  Sometimes she brings out other K9 handlers on her force and as far as I know, none of them have purchased adult, trained dogs.

The price of these dogs is simply supply/demand.  Rich and famous people will pay $22,000-$60,000 for these dogs, so that is what people pay.  The training itself really runs the spectrum of laughable to actually good.

Liesje

personally cannot ever imagine ...training my own dog with the intent of selling it.  It's a concept so foreign to me. 

 Ditto! I also sense from your posts how much you love working with and training your dogs--you sure can't buy/sell that.

Liesje

The price of these dogs is simply supply/demand.  Rich and famous people will pay $22,000-$60,000 for these dogs, so that is what people pay. 

Yes, this is the world that makes no sense to me...I would so love to see them donate that money to the local food bank, etc., etc., but I know it's just a whole other way of living that is completely foreign to me.

Liesje

He sells mostly "green" dogs meaning they are past baby puppyhood and have some foundation work done to determine that they have the right abilities for the job, but the majority of training and finishing is done by the handler

I would think it would be important for the handler to be involved with/part of the majority of the training--it's a law enforcement team (seems different somehow from the dogs' roles in the OP??) But, I really don't know much at all about the whole process of getting an officer/dog team ready to go, so I may be way off. I may be off topic, too--sorry.

 The rich guy tried to hide assets from the judge-over and over.  Then he would get caught spending more money that he had said he didn't have.  The judge is mad.  One more try and Hecker will be in jail in his shorts.  The judge will impound the pants. Its like he believes he can get away with anything,

Liesje

so I can't imagine only doing it for profit.

A good portion do it for prestige over profit, too, though.   Not all that dissimilar to people who co-own dogs they've practically never seen in their lives, but they keep their names on the dogs for the prestige.

Liesje

I personally cannot ever imagine training someone else's dog, or training my own dog with the intent of selling it. 

DougB

 The rich guy tried to hide assets from the judge-over and over.  Then he would get caught spending more money that he had said he didn't have.  The judge is mad.  One more try and Hecker will be in jail in his shorts.  The judge will impound the pants. Its like he believes he can get away with anything,

i cant help but hope so.....  at first it sounded like in the OP he just got the dog "to protect the gf from the psycho ex wife"

Liesje

They are not worth $30,000.  Anyone can get a dog with the same or BETTER pedigree for $800-$3500 (lower end working lines, higher end show lines) for starters.  These estate & executive dogs are status symbols.  Most of them do not have enough training to pass a Schutzhund 1, which certainly does not cost $30,000 to train and earn the title unless you are spending decades trying to get your Bichon to pass.  You can do a hands-on weekend long seminar with some of the best trainers in the world for under $1000.  Come, sit, heel, down and stay are not "advanced" obedience commands.

If you need a PPD, buy one with a great pedigree (awesome working line dog will run you maybe $2000 MAX even if you import it from Europe), develop a great bond with the dog, and do the training yourself.

While I would not pay $30K for a dog or $40K+ for a horse, I don't fault those that do. I think training young horses and dogs is part of the fun, but I understand that some people do not find it enjoyable. The market will dictate what the animal is worth, even if they seem exorbitantly high to us.

stormyknight

While I would not pay $30K for a dog or $40K+ for a horse, I don't fault those that do. I think training young horses and dogs is part of the fun, but I understand that some people do not find it enjoyable. The market will dictate what the animal is worth, even if they seem exorbitantly high to us.

  Very true! And I agree, with these sorts of places it is a business and they are likely charge $x per hour of work for the dog when factoring in training for the price the dog will be sold for. Also likely factoring in care - food, vet care, etc of the dog over X days plus what the dog cost unfinished and what dogs of that pedigree are generally worth without training. So the final price may be a combination of the dog's cost + the dog's pedigree's value + the dog's food total + the dog's vet and other care total + $X/per hour of training (if the trainer is not the seller, the seller would be paying this) + the believed value of the training and/or titles + whatever markup the trainer/seller believes they need in order to make this a profitable business and make up for other factors such as travel, working with clients, reserach, etc.

  I can't say what these dogs are "worth" because I am not the target market. The target market seems willing to pay the prices for these dogs, if they weren't they would either not be priced so high or there would be far fewer people selling such dogs.

AgileGSD

  I can't say what these dogs are "worth" because I am not the target market. The target market seems willing to pay the prices for these dogs, if they weren't they would either not be priced so high or there would be far fewer people selling such dogs.

a fool and his money ...... and then there are those who think just because it has a few extra zeros tacked onto the price means its.. extra special.

like i said... fools. 

DumDog

a fool and his money ...... and then there are those who think just because it has a few extra zeros tacked onto the price means its.. extra special.

like i said... fools. 

A slipper can be worth $30K if someone is willing to pay it!  These things happen all the time, what makes one pair of jeans sell for $8.00 and another sell for $800.00?  Or one leather pocketbook $30 and another $3,000?  The person who made it?  the person who trained it?  the person who breed it? Rich people tend to think you get what you pay for and therefore inflate the value of ordinary things. 

luvmyswissy

DumDog

a fool and his money ...... and then there are those who think just because it has a few extra zeros tacked onto the price means its.. extra special.

like i said... fools. 

A slipper can be worth $30K if someone is willing to pay it!  These things happen all the time, what makes one pair of jeans sell for $8.00 and another sell for $800.00?  Or one leather pocketbook $30 and another $3,000?  The person who made it?  the person who trained it?  the person who breed it? Rich people tend to think you get what you pay for and therefore inflate the value of ordinary things. 

yeah lol makes me glad that i was raised working class and will never be a billionaire. i dont care if its expensive.... how's the quality?

Or one piece of artwork by a trained artist worth $300 versus another worth $8000.  Same amount of paint, time, tools, and training went into each, but the outcome is different depending on the skill level of the artist.... substitute artist with trainer, maybe.