"Pedigree dogs exposed"

spiritdogs

 Well, here's the elephant in the room - what about all the "no kill" shelters that house questionable animals for eons and thus have no room for some really great dogs, who then end up in open admission shelters just like the ones you describe, that are euthanizing "boat loads."

A huge gripe of mine. 

spiritdogs

Why are we importing dogs from Puerto Rico to save them when dogs in West Virginia, Ohio, and Pennsylvania are dying by the "boat loads?"

Anne, this drives me crazy!

jennypage

 Isn't it true though at this point that the most healthy dogs are usually mutts?  The dogs with the smallest instances of genetic and predispositioned diseases are mutts, who are able to gain the best traits from different breeds rather than intensifying the worst trait from the same breed bred over and over?

Haven't seen any study results on this.  It may be a myth.  While there is the concept of hybrid vigor, if you have unhealthy mutts breeding to unhealthy mutts, you get  more unhealthy mutts.  And I don't know if I accept the idea that mutts have less predisposition for genetic faults.

Logically, trying to breed dogs without the genetic fault, specifically purebreds,  would result in a healthy dog.  And with the purebreds, you usually can find a genetic history before you breed them.  Mutts don't usually have a history available.  This is of course dealing with serious breeders who are trying to improve breeds, and not BYBs looking to breed their pet, or puppy mills selling purebred Morkies. The better breeders offer guarantees on health and stand behind them.  They also publish their dogs genealogy for several generations, and you can frequently check for health problems for several generations.  With mutts, what you see may be what you get, or not.

I think I should say something in defense of my brothers.  They have conducted training classes for new dog owners, and have actively helped people rehome dogs.  They choose to not adopt rescues.  They want their personal dogs to match my avatar as closely as possible because we know the history of this breeding and it is healthy, smart. highly trainable, with a strong prey drive, and cuter than cute.  Like many people, their buying a dog does not effect the rescue population.  These dogs hunt for a living, and they live well. (it is possible that they are a bit spoiled). 4 of my 5 brothers have dogs with the same bloodline.  My other brother has a mastiff.

spiritdogs

 Well, here's the elephant in the room - what about all the "no kill" shelters that house questionable animals for eons and thus have no room for some really great dogs, who then end up in open admission shelters just like the ones you describe, that are euthanizing "boat loads."

So here's my question. Yes, I agree, there are no kill shelters (usually limited admission), that do house animals until they get adopted. The wait to get adopted may be longer based on many different criteria - age, size, energy level, grooming requirements, bad habits, looks, breed(s), among other things. All of these usually of course not the dog's fault. But I ask, does that dog that based on his breed, or on his energy level, or size or age, does he deserve to be euthanized simply because there is a smaller market for a dog like him? Absolutely not. And is it for some reason that no kill shelter's fault that dogs in the county over are being euthanized? Absolutely not.

Do I always agree with every no kill shelter's ideals or policies? No. But I definitely do not always agree with every kill shelter's ideals or policies. I would rather a no kill shelter that hangs onto hard to place dogs exist than not exist. The fact of the matter is, those people running that no kill shelter, and the employees and volunteers, are giving it their all. Who am I to tell them that that dog is "not worth the effort" because there are other easier to place dogs out there? Instead, why not praise their efforts in working with hard to place dogs because so few places do? There is no reason those hard to place dogs should be euthanized simply because other dogs are also being euthanized. That would be like saying all Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, Cattle Dogs, mastiff breeds, or Cattle Dogs should just be euthanized simply because they are on a general rule "hard to place" because they have special requirements.

JackieG

tenna

 

I find this sad and I find it a problem. I think it's very sad people refuse to adopt because they feel they are "taking on someone's problems." What a sad outlook on (potentially) saving a dog's life! I agree, some dogs in shelters have problems, but a vast majority wind up there through no fault of their own, or their issues are easily remedied by a competent owner. And for most breeds, there are breed rescues.

I don't find it sad and I understand exactly why some people choose not to adopt or rescue a purebred dog.  It's a personal choice.  To imply that people are heartless and uncaring because they choose not to adopt is presumptious at best, IMO. 

Agreed.  Different families have different needs.  I have one dog that does better with pups being brought into the house than adult dogs, and it is not easy to go into a shelter, pick a random pup, and know how stable that pup is going to be as an adult with 2 other dogs, several cats, and possibly children.  This does not mean that I don't put animals first, it means that I put my current animals' happiness and well being first. 

BTW, I would happily adopt a kitten....

tenna

spiritdogs

 Well, here's the elephant in the room - what about all the "no kill" shelters that house questionable animals for eons and thus have no room for some really great dogs, who then end up in open admission shelters just like the ones you describe, that are euthanizing "boat loads."

 

I've said this before-sometimes rescues seem to shoot themselves in the foot.  A dog has been in rescue a long time, somebody wants it , and either they do or don't have a pet door or fence,depending on the rescue, and the applicant is refused because the pet door or fence means the dog  can be out unsupervised and get hurt, or it can not get out readily.  The rescued dog stays in rescue, the next in line gets euthed.   The would be applicant has been through the wringer several times trying to adopt, so they decide to buy from a BYB.

I am against euthanasia for healthy animals.  But the rescue has the right to set their own rules, and each one does.  Neighboring rescues may have very different requirements.  It might be good if rescues in a community would adopt similar criteria, and base it on the animals needs, not the rescues.  The animal needs a home.  It doesn't need a perfect home  It needs  a loving home that is knowledgeable about animals . Dogs and people are adaptable and can learn.  A dog can spend time outside in a kennel or fenced yard without being watched all the time. Owners can be taught how to handle their pet.  Maybe a package deal-adopt a dog for $$ and get 5 free lessons in dog handling.

Rescues need to realize that they are in competition to place pets, and the retailers and breeders are out merchandising them.  

DougB

Rescues need to realize that they are in competition to place pets, and the retailers and breeders are out merchandising them.  

 

Rescues are not supposed to be "merchandising," they are supposed to be matching animals with families that will fit with them.... 

sillysally

Agreed.  Different families have different needs.  I have one dog that does better with pups being brought into the house than adult dogs, and it is not easy to go into a shelter, pick a random pup, and know how stable that pup is going to be as an adult with 2 other dogs, several cats, and possibly children.  This does not mean that I don't put animals first, it means that I put my current animals' happiness and well being first. 

BTW, I would happily adopt a kitten....

And remember, families are adopting adult dogs and puppies into their houses in just such situations, and doing so successfully. But again, nowhere did I say that people are uncaring about dogs because they buy from a reputable breeder. Words are getting put into my mouth that I did not say.

 I agree that some rescues have ridiculously high standards, but hey, at least they are out there doing something to help. They are taking in dogs and finding them fabulous homes. I don't see how that is somehow harmful to the overall population, hm? They are putting time, energy, and money, into finding dogs new homes. That is way more than many people can say. It is very hard to give a dog that you are attached to away into a home environment where he won't be cared for how you think he will be cared for.

But the fact remains that rescues and shelters that feel impossible to adopt from are not every shelter or rescue out there (as some people like to make it seem). There are still plenty of shelters that do no screening! Shelters that do a medium amount of screening, and some that are over the top. There are still rescues and shelters out there of every variety for every person looking into getting a dog. So using the excuse that shelters are "too stringent" for adopters isn't necessarily valid when it comes to people not adopting.

DougB

Rescues need to realize that they are in competition to place pets, and the retailers and breeders are out merchandising them.  

This is correct, and they should definitely be advertising as much as they can. But they can't force people to adopt.

tenna

sillysally

Agreed.  Different families have different needs.  I have one dog that does better with pups being brought into the house than adult dogs, and it is not easy to go into a shelter, pick a random pup, and know how stable that pup is going to be as an adult with 2 other dogs, several cats, and possibly children.  This does not mean that I don't put animals first, it means that I put my current animals' happiness and well being first. 

BTW, I would happily adopt a kitten....

 

And remember, families are adopting adult dogs and puppies into their houses in just such situations, and doing so successfully.

And there are some who end up having endless issues with the adopted adult dog and the original adult dog not getting along, or with the pup growing up to have some serious issues with temperament instability despite the owner's best efforts.  If we had different family circumstances I would have no issue adopting an adult dog, but we don't, so I don't see what is wrong with wanting to hedge our bets by having a dog from a good breeder as a first choice. 

sillysally

If we had different family circumstances I would have no issue adopting an adult dog, but we don't, so I don't see what is wrong with wanting to hedge our bets by having a dog from a good breeder as a first choice. 

Where in the world did I say it was wrong to want to buy a puppy? I don't believe I did. Please, you are making assumptions about my feelings that are incorrect. Now again, read what I have to say before making assumptions - nowhere did I say that there was anything wrong with buying a puppy from a reputable breeder for a good reason. Nowhere. I said that reputable breeders were necessary, even!

Here is what I said - I said it was sad people refuse to adopt because they feel they are taking on someone else's problem, and that people successfully adopt adult dogs and puppies into homes with other dogs/kids/cats frequently, and I feel that reputable breeders should not be breeding litters just to produce more puppies. Nowhere did I say you are a bad person for wanting to buy a puppy. Now please, get over it.
 

sillysally

Different families have different needs. 

Well I guess I have an issue with the word "need".  No family "needs" a dog.  They WANT a dog.   All homeless dogs NEED a home.  And besides, my reasoning for buying a puppy from a breeder was because I didn't want a dog with behavior issues.  Boy was I wrong, because all I got were behavior issues.  My dog has bitten 3 people and comes from the best show champion lines imaginable.

sillysally

If we had different family circumstances I would have no issue adopting an adult dog, but we don't, so I don't see what is wrong with wanting to hedge our bets by having a dog from a good breeder as a first choice. 

And what happens if the dog you buy from a breeder doesn't work out with your other animals? 

jenns

sillysally

Different families have different needs. 

Well I guess I have an issue with the word "need".  No family "needs" a dog.  They WANT a dog.   All homeless dogs NEED a home.  And besides, my reasoning for buying a puppy from a breeder was because I didn't want a dog with behavior issues.  Boy was I wrong, because all I got were behavior issues.  My dog has bitten 3 people and comes from the best show champion lines imaginable.

I never said I NEED a dog.  However, if I WANT to have a dog it NEEDS to be one with a stable temperament, something that I feel more comfortable about if I have interacted with the dog's parents, can do research on the lines, etc.  There are other things that are nice add-ons, but temperament is first, followed closely by health.

 I think it's important to remember that just because someone is a show breeder does not automatically make them a reputable breeder.  I don't care how many ribbons their lines have won, if they are not producing stable, healthy dogs, they are not reputable.

jenns

sillysally

If we had different family circumstances I would have no issue adopting an adult dog, but we don't, so I don't see what is wrong with wanting to hedge our bets by having a dog from a good breeder as a first choice. 

And what happens if the dog you buy from a breeder doesn't work out with your other animals? 

Well, a good breeder would take the dog back- no matter what, at any point. They stand behind their dogs, and, if it doesn't work out they want  their dogs back.