"Pedigree dogs exposed"

jenns

Based on the criteria many of you are using to define responsible breeders, I'd say 99% of non-puppy mill bereders are not responsible.

 Then you would be wrong.  It's okay to be wrong if you're willing to learn.

jenns

miranadobe

The solution I agree with most is based partly in educating owners (right down to children, especially) about ethical/responsible breeding practices

And again, what are they going to use this information for?  You want millions of people to now go to the responsible breeders?

It's two fold - once you know what is involved in responsible breeding, you can choose a responsible breeder.  Or, for hobby breeders, they can choose to become better, more informed and responsible breeders, thus opening up more avenues for puppy seekers.  Education is quite enlightening - perhaps the level of BYBs would increase, too, to a more acceptable level by this education.  Lamenting "what is" and expecting it to remain the same is counter-productive.

I seriously ask you this - I have read the thread, and plenty of others where you've posted on topics of breeders and ear cropping and other things where you feel dogs are harmed.  I give you credit for sticking in to fight for your opinion, and I appreciate it because I believe it's reflective of an aspect of our culture that loves dogs but believes these things that make the rest of us scratch our heads.  Anyway, after all this, it still makes me question - why would we all go to shelters to get dogs and boycott ethical breeders?  Do you believe any breeders are ethical?   Or are they all bad and we should only acquire the messes from people who have oops litters, in order to assuage some guilt over the accident that someone else's irresponsibility caused? 

Working backwards through the thoughts, this is how I have interpreted the perspective, so I'm asking for help because the follow through in the thought process has me stumped. 

• We should get dogs from shelters, exclusively. 
• Well, how do they get there? Because someone else took on a dog and was irresponsible with it, or the other percentage who became homeless due to illness or death, let's say. 
• Ok, how did that irresponsible person come to acquire the dog if we operate under the assumption that ethical breeders are off the table?
• Here is where I'm stuck.  They came from shelters before this?  They came from oops litters?
• Or is it really an inhumane thing to keep dogs and we should only be caring for the mistakes of others, the dogs that are suffering, until there is no suffering or mistake litters until all dogs are gone, or wild?

jenns

DougB

How is it kind to force a person to take an animal they don't want.

 

For the hundredth time, it should not be about what people WANT.

There we disagree.... what about people who do not like or want dogs at all - is it also their duty to home  a shelter dog?  This argument is simply ludicrous.  Of course it is about what people WANT.  People will do all they WANT to help, and no more. 

If a person wants a dog from a breeder they will not go to a shelter.  They have chosen to go to a breeder FOR A REASON.  A shelter dog would not suit their lifestyle or requirements.  

Jenns wrote

For the hundredth time, it should not be about what people WANT.

Do you really mean this. Did you read this statement after you wrote it.  Are you going to force people to take dogs they don't want. Then have to dog police check to be sure they are cared for.  IT IS ALL  ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE WANT.  People (many) want purebreds.  They want their dogs to come from a known source.  This is a reality.  You are using an argument based on your needs , not the needs of people getting dogs.You start your argument by ignoring reality, then apply your emotions to the argument.  If you can come up with a way to make rescue dogs more desirable and more readily available, you would be more effective in getting dogs out of rescue.  You can not force the American people to give up something they want.  Look up the Volstead act and prohibition.

You also seem to lose sight of the fact that most people in the US do not abandon their pets.  They do not abuse them.  They may lose them occasionally  , but most try to take good care.  Rescues seem to not realize this, as they have rules designed to avoid rehoming pets.

miranadobe

jenns

BEVOLASVEGAS

I can say is that, after reading some of the AR bs here, I can see why people are turned off by shelter dogs.  It has nothing to do with the dogs themselves, & everything to do with people who are hellbent on making a purebred fancier feel guilty for not "doing their part & saving a shelter dog." 

And you put "doing their part & saving a shelter dog" in quotes as if it's some stupid, horrible thing.  

You are sooo preaching to the choir with this one.  As in palm-to-head-slappingly so.

That's putting it mildly.... after all Amanda has done for shelter, and for Brutus, Cher and goodness knows how many others. 

*face-palm*

jenns

For the hundredth time, it should not be about what people WANT.

 By your reasoning no one should own dogs because some people are irresponsible.  Thus none of us should have dogs because that opens the door for irresponsible people being able to get them too.

 Topic change-that is a great picture of your dog.

Chuffy

miranadobe

jenns

BEVOLASVEGAS

I can say is that, after reading some of the AR bs here, I can see why people are turned off by shelter dogs.  It has nothing to do with the dogs themselves, & everything to do with people who are hellbent on making a purebred fancier feel guilty for not "doing their part & saving a shelter dog." 

And you put "doing their part & saving a shelter dog" in quotes as if it's some stupid, horrible thing.  

You are sooo preaching to the choir with this one.  As in palm-to-head-slappingly so.

 

That's putting it mildly.... after all Amanda has done for shelter, and for Brutus, Cher and goodness knows how many others. 

*face-palm*

Well I apologize, I don't know anything about Amanda's background with dogs.  I only know what was posted in this thread and the way she worded her post came across as very flippant about the shelter dog situation.

miranadobe

It's two fold - once you know what is involved in responsible breeding, you can choose a responsible breeder.  Or, for hobby breeders, they can choose to become better, more informed and responsible breeders, thus opening up more avenues for puppy seekers.  Education is quite enlightening - perhaps the level of BYBs would increase, too, to a more acceptable level by this education.  Lamenting "what is" and expecting it to remain the same is counter-productive.

I seriously ask you this - I have read the thread, and plenty of others where you've posted on topics of breeders and ear cropping and other things where you feel dogs are harmed.  I give you credit for sticking in to fight for your opinion, and I appreciate it because I believe it's reflective of an aspect of our culture that loves dogs but believes these things that make the rest of us scratch our heads.  Anyway, after all this, it still makes me question - why would we all go to shelters to get dogs and boycott ethical breeders?  Do you believe any breeders are ethical?   Or are they all bad and we should only acquire the messes from people who have oops litters, in order to assuage some guilt over the accident that someone else's irresponsibility caused? 

Working backwards through the thoughts, this is how I have interpreted the perspective, so I'm asking for help because the follow through in the thought process has me stumped. 

• We should get dogs from shelters, exclusively. 
• Well, how do they get there? Because someone else took on a dog and was irresponsible with it, or the other percentage who became homeless due to illness or death, let's say. 
• Ok, how did that irresponsible person come to acquire the dog if we operate under the assumption that ethical breeders are off the table?
• Here is where I'm stuck.  They came from shelters before this?  They came from oops litters?
• Or is it really an inhumane thing to keep dogs and we should only be caring for the mistakes of others, the dogs that are suffering, until there is no suffering or mistake litters until all dogs are gone, or wild?

Miranadobe, I will reply to your post later, but I just want to thank you for at least trying to understand where I'm coming from.

jenns

Well I apologize, I don't know anything about Amanda's background with dogs.  I only know what was posted in this thread and the way she worded her post came across as very flippant about the shelter dog situation.

Well, now maybe you understand how many of us feel about your flippant attitude about our personal choices on which dogs belong in our homes.  Most, if not all of the people who have been posting here have rescued dogs and are currently active with a rescue or a shelter.

Liesje

Well, now maybe you understand how many of us feel about your flippant attitude about our personal choices on which dogs belong in our homes.  Most, if not all of the people who have been posting here have rescued dogs and are currently active with a rescue or a shelter.

I know I said I was done with this thread but thanks for pointing out what should be obvious to any member who has been here for even a short time.  It is a slap in the face when so many here do so much for dogs, whether it's in rescue or with shelter work or just picking  a stray off the streets.  Everyone here does what they can for dogs.

I do understand jenn that you are speaking from great emotion and great heartache over the fate of so many dogs that die in shelters.  I truly do get that you care very much.  We all care.  We don't like being labeled selfish because we make informed choices based on our wants and needs. 

DougB

 Topic change-that is a great picture of your dog.

Liesje

So how many shelter animals have *you* saved and how are *you* helping them?  What are you actually doing?

I was wondering the same thing. Was this^ ever even answered?

So many of us on this forum have done a ton of work for shelter animals. I have volunteered my time and donated money, food, treats, litter, blankets, and towels to local shelters and to the shelter in GA Apollo came from. I have done a few of the MSPCA walks and raised money for that too. My dogs were adopted/rehomed to me, my cats came from a shelter, and my bunny was free to a good home at a yard sale. Our next dogs (we will likely only have 2) 1 will come from a reputable breeder and 1 will come from a shelter/rescue. I am all for people getting a dog from a reputable breeder or a shelter/rescue- I'm all for that. It's when people venture down the BYB/petstore/broker road that I'm totally against it. 

jenns

Chuffy

miranadobe

jenns

BEVOLASVEGAS

I can say is that, after reading some of the AR bs here, I can see why people are turned off by shelter dogs.  It has nothing to do with the dogs themselves, & everything to do with people who are hellbent on making a purebred fancier feel guilty for not "doing their part & saving a shelter dog." 

And you put "doing their part & saving a shelter dog" in quotes as if it's some stupid, horrible thing.  

You are sooo preaching to the choir with this one.  As in palm-to-head-slappingly so.

 

That's putting it mildly.... after all Amanda has done for shelter, and for Brutus, Cher and goodness knows how many others. 

*face-palm*

Well I apologize, I don't know anything about Amanda's background with dogs.  I only know what was posted in this thread and the way she worded her post came across as very flippant about the shelter dog situation.

There's plenty of threads on it.  In a friendly forum, it's good to really browse before jumping feet first into a hot topic and making assumptions.  Just a word to the wise.

BlackLabbie

I am all for people getting a dog from a reputable breeder or a shelter/rescue- I'm all for that

You need to insert "reputable" before the word "shelter" as well  

It's irresponsible people all over who are the problem.  Irresponsible breeders producing too many puppies, and puppies of poor health and temperament, irresponsible Joe QP who goes out and gets a dog without doing research, and/or dumps it when the dog becomes inconvenient or no longer matches the carpet (yes, this happens!) and irresponsible shelters operating inefficiently and putting all those unlucky dogs down.  The best way to change it is with education.... squeeze the poor breeders out of the market, improve or discourage the bad owners and don't support the bad shelters either.

Chuffy

BlackLabbie

I am all for people getting a dog from a reputable breeder or a shelter/rescue- I'm all for that

 

You need to insert "reputable" before the word "shelter" as well   

Very true.