"Pedigree dogs exposed"

    • Gold Top Dog

    Kim_MacMillan

    It's easy to get high and mighty about anything, and the fact is, shelter systems have a lot of problems, and there is a definite problem in irresponsible breeding practices. But there's no one-size-fits-all right answer. Some shelters are awesome, some are horrendous....some breeders are awesome, some are horrendous. The fact is, both are equally important for the future of dogs as a whole.

     

    ^This

    • Gold Top Dog

    jenns

    I find it presposterous that some of you are blaming shelters and rescues for the overpopulation problem, and others are denying altogether that overpopulation exists!  It's simple math - more dogs being born than there are homes = dogs dying due to lack of homes. And yes, even  dogs from responsible breeders end up homeless.  How on earth does the breeder know the exact whereabouts of every puppy she has ever produced?  Does she put a tracking device on all of them?  What if the people who buy one of her dogs moves across the country, and then they have a baby and decides they no longer want to keep the dog.  Are they going to travel across the country to return the dog to the breeder?  Or spend hundreds of dollars for air travel.  Most likely not, and who knows there the dog ends up

     

     How many shelters have you worked in?  I have (as previously mentioned) been an adoption counselor at a shelter for a couple years and I will be the first to tell you there are a lot of policies that need to be changed.  I am not saying shelters are responsible for people dumping dogs, but they are not all (or possibly even the majority) operating efficiently and things like this should be discussed.  Problems in shelters need to be discussed and addressed for the animals' sakes.  There is a lot that goes into a "75%' kill rate and that NEEDS to be looked at.  In my own community because people have criticized the shelter, there are pushes for change that will hopefully stop so many euths.  The population will not go down at all but the euth rate is going down.

     The bottom line is if people took dog ownership a bit more seriously and didn't give their dogs up on a whim, then the problem would be a lot less.

    • Gold Top Dog

    jennypage
    I don't know that a personal blog is really debate-worthy, accurate information.

     http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2007/10/02/petscol.DTL

    The personal blog just happens to be that of a man who founded a national organization to advocate on behalf of shelter  for shelter animals, who has been the shelter director for numerous successful no-kill shelters in both city and rural areas, who has wrote the most critically acclaimed book on animal shelter/rescue and been invited to speak all over the world. he has been involved with rescuing animals for much of his life. he is some one who is extremely active in running shelters, yet he doesn't place the blame on breeders, doesn't support spay/neuter laws and doesn't claim the issue is "overpopulation" (and has the numbers to back that up).

     The following article appeared in the SF Chronicle about his work and the issue of overpopulation:

    In the still-heated debate over reducing shelters deaths in California, there is probably no more polarizing figure than Nathan Winograd, former director of operations for the San Francisco SPCA.

    At first glance, Winograd has all the credentials any animal rights activist or shelter professional could ask for. He's a vegan. He left a lucrative career as a prosecuting attorney to devote himself to helping animals. Last year, his income was only $35,000. He has spearheaded the No Kill Advocacy Center, a national organization aimed at ending the killing of pets in animal shelters. While director of operations at the San Francisco SPCA, he worked with then-president Richard Avanzino to implement a wide variety of animal livesaving programs, and then went on to achieve similar success as director of a rural shelter in upstate New York.

    But Winograd isn't making a lot of friends in the shelter industry these days. That's because he authored a book called "Redemption: The Myth of Pet Overpopulation and the No Kill Revolution in America" that challenges the very foundation of nearly every theory and principle of shelter management in this country: The idea that there are more pets dying in shelters each year than homes available for those pets.

    In fact, with between 4 and 5 million dogs and cats being killed in shelters nationwide every year, denying the existence of pet overpopulation seems ridiculous. If there aren't more pets than homes, why are so many animals ending up in shelters in the first place?

    Conventional wisdom tells us it's because of irresponsible pet owners who aren't willing to work to keep their pets in their homes. It's a failure of commitment, of caring, and of the human/animal bond. If fewer pets were born, there would be fewer coming into shelters. If people cared more about their pets, they wouldn't give them up so easily, would spay and neuter them so they wouldn't reproduce, and wouldn't let them stray.

    That is exactly what I always believed, too, for the nearly 17 years I've been writing about pets. And yet, after reading "Redemption," I don't believe it anymore.

    Winograd's argument is simply this: Based on data from the American Veterinary Medical Association, the American Animal Hospital Association, the Pet Food Manufacturers Association, and the latest census, there are more than enough homes for every dog and cat being killed in shelters every year. In fact, when I spoke to him for this article, he told me that there aren't just enough homes for the dogs and cats being killed in shelters. There are more homes for cats and dogs opening each year than there are cats and dogs even entering shelters.

    He's not suggesting this is really nothing but a numbers game, though. "When I argue that pet overpopulation is a myth, I'm not saying that we can all go home," he said. "And I'm not saying that there aren't certain people who are irresponsible with their animals. And I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of animals entering shelters. Again, I'm not saying that it wouldn't be better if there were fewer of them being impounded. But it does mean that the problem is not insurmountable and it does mean that we can do something short of killing for all savable animals today."

    There is probably nothing Winograd could say that would more inflame the shelter and humane society establishment than calling pet overpopulation a myth. But Winograd doesn't just stop there. In "Redemption," Winograd lays the lion's share of the blame for shelter deaths not on pet owners and communities, but on the management, staff, and boards of directors of the shelters themselves.

    "If a community is still killing the majority of shelter animals, it is because the local SPCA, humane society, or animal control shelter has fundamentally failed in its mission," he writes. "And this failure is nothing more than a failure of leadership. The buck stops with the shelter's director."

    Redemption makes the case that bad shelter management leads to overcrowding, which is then confused with pet overpopulation. Instead of warehousing and killing animals, shelters, he says, should be using proven, innovative programs to find those homes he says are out there. They should wholeheartedly adopt the movement known as No Kill, and stop using killing as a form of population control.

    Mike Fry, the executive director of Animal Ark Shelter in the Minneapolis area, was one of those who had a problem with Winograd's analysis. Interviewing Winograd on his radio show, he said, "I was one of those people, when I saw the title "The Myth of Pet Overpopulation ..." the hackles kind of went up on the back of my neck. This is a problem we're struggling and fighting with literally day in day out in the animal welfare community."

    Winograd, who has been in the same trenches himself, responded with some specific examples of the buck stopping at the shelter director's desk. "Let's just look at various animals dying in shelters around the nation today," he said on Fry's radio show. "If ... motherless kittens are killed because the shelter doesn't have a comprehensive foster care program, that's not pet overpopulation. That's the lack of a foster care program.

    "If adoptions are low because people are getting those dogs and cats from other places, because the shelter isn't doing outside adoptions (adoptions done off the shelter premises), that's a failure to do outside adoptions, not pet overpopulation.

    "And you can go down the list. If animals are killed because working with rescue groups is discouraged, again, that's not pet overpopulation. If dogs are going cage-crazy because volunteers and staff aren't allowed to socialize them, and then those dogs are killed because they're quote-unquote "cage crazy," because the shelter doesn't have a behavior rehabilitation program in place, once again, that's not pet overpopulation; that's the lack of programs and services that save lives.

    "And you can say that about feral cats being killed because a shelter doesn't have a trap-neuter-return program. You can say that about shy or scared dogs because the shelter is doing this bogus temperament testing that's killing shy dogs and claiming they are unadoptable. It goes on and on and on."

    Winograd's not just talking about something that could happen, but something that has already happened many times in a number of American communities — including San Francisco, which in 1994 became the first city in the United States to end the killing of healthy dogs and cats.

    Of course, the San Francisco SPCA was not the first no-kill shelter in the United States. There have always been individual shelters and rescue groups that have not used population control killing. What San Francisco did was to institutionalize No Kill on a county-wide basis, guaranteeing that animals would not be killed simply for lack of shelter space. The SFSPCA promised to take all adoptable, treatable, and rehabilitatable pets that came into San Francisco's municipal shelter, and find homes for them if the city shelter could not.

    "If you look at what San Francisco did between 1993 and 1994, the number of deaths didn't decline by one percent or two percent," Winograd said. "In the case of healthy animals it declined 100 percent. In the case of sick and injured animals it declined by about 50 percent." Nonetheless, instead of adopting similar programs for their own communities, most observers of the time shrugged it off, saying that it wouldn't work anywhere else. San Francisco, they said, is special.

    As a fourth-generation native, I'm the first to admit my city is special. But the reality is that No Kill has worked in a wide variety of communities. Winograd later left California and took over the SPCA in Tompkins County, N.Y., which held the animal control contract for the region and has an open admissions policy. One of the most compelling sections of "Redemption" tells how Winograd walked into the shelter and, literally overnight, ended the practice of killing for shelter space:

    "The day after my arrival, my staff informed me that our dog kennels were full and since a litter of six puppies had come in, I needed to decide who was going to be killed in order to make space. I asked for 'Plan B'; there was none. I asked for suggestions; there were none."

    He spoke directly to his staff, saying, "Volunteers who work with animals do so out of sheer love. They don't bring home a paycheck. So if a volunteer says, 'I can't do it,' I can accept that from her. But staff members are paid to save lives. If a paid member of staff throws up her hands and says, 'There's nothing that can be done,' I may as well eliminate her position and use the money that goes for her salary in a more constructive manner. So what are we going to do with the puppies that doesn't involve killing?"

    The story of how Tompkins County stopped killing for population control and started sending more than 90 percent of the animals that come into its animal control system out alive may be one of the greatest success stories of the humane movement. It's certainly one of the most compelling parts of the argument laid out in "Redemption."

    Because, although it wasn't always easy, these programs worked, and not only in San Francisco or Tompkins County. "In Tompkins County, we reduced the death rate 75 percent in two years. In Charlottesville, Va., they reduced it by over 50 percent in one year. And Reno, Nev. ... has reduced the death rate by over 50 percent," Winograd said.

    "If all shelters not only have the desire and embrace the No Kill philosophy, but comprehensively put into play all those programs and services that ... I ... collectively call the no-kill equation, then we would achieve success."

    The issue of pet overpopulation is only one piece of the story told in "Redemption." Within its pages, readers and animal lovers can find the blueprint not so much for our failure to save the animals in our communities, but for our ability to start doing so today. It challenges us to demand more of our shelters than the status quo, to insist on an end to the use of killing as a form of animal population control, and tells us to stop allowing our tax dollars and donations to support shelters and animal control agencies that refuse to implement programs that have been proven in communities across America to work to end the killing.

    Bay Area residents will have the chance to hear Winograd speak on "Redemption" and the No Kill movement. He'll be at the Women's Community Building at 3543 18th St. in San Francisco on Thursday, Nov. 8, at 6 p.m. The event is free, and space can be reserved at www.eventbrite.com/event/64640341. There is also more information, and a list of speaking dates in other parts of the country, at www.nathanwinograd.com.

    Christie Keith is a contributing editor for Universal Press Syndicate's Pet Connection and past director of the Pet Care Forum on America Online. She lives in San Francisco

     

    • Silver

    That is an incredible article and I think what he is doing is awesome.  Thanks for explaining who he is and why you were quoting his blog. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    jenns

     I'm still curious to see if any of you think that any breeder can be considered responsible who produces puppies of breeds with smashed in faces,or dogs so large they have growth problems and heart issues, or so small their teeth rot out of their mouths, or backs so long they get disc disease, or dogs with ears and tails so defective they need to be surgically removed when the dog is a pup to prevent injury, or with skulls too small for their brains, or with infected skin due to folds and wrinkles.  Because not surprisingly, no one commented on that part of my post, and that seems to be the original topic of the thread.

     Skulls too small for their brains...you mean like Dobes who's brains swell and causing them to go crazy? What sort of "growth" problems? What breeds have "defective" tails and ears that need to be removed and how are they defective?

     I think ultratyping of some brachy and dwarf breeds is too bad but what does that have to do with the vast majority of breeds who aren't brachy or dwarves? Many of the Brachy breeds don't have breathing problems. I am around multiple Boxers every day, two show bred (one a CH) and one from a pet breeder. None have any breathing issues at all and two of them have done pretty well in agility and go trail riding and biking with their owner on a regular basis. And there are plenty of dwarf breeds who have long successful agility careers and never suffer any back injuries (I suspect proper conditioning and exercise actually help reduced any dwarf breed's likihood of spinal injury). A corgi won AKC Agility Invitational this year in both the 8" (Pem) and 12" (Cardi) division.

     The breed I am involved in is a breed that has a natural build, natural size, natural ears and tails, is known for having outstanding reproductive health (natural breeders/whelpers) and is an overall pretty healthy breed that often lives into their mid to late teens. How does that figure into your "purebred dogs are unhealthy mutants" theory?

    • Gold Top Dog

    jenns

     

    Either way, if that is how you really feel then your aggressive dog's breeder had little to do with his temperament--that's all on you.

     I believe the reason my dog turned out the way he did was a combination of genetics and the fact that the breeder did not socialize him properly as a pup.  Now some of you might say that makes her not a responsible breeder, but I do think that many of you would have thought she was and would consider buying a puppy from her.  She health tests, her lines are VERY carefully planned, every dog in his pedigree is a show champion and both his parents were titles in obedience and CGC.  She only breeds about 2 litters per year and is very active in breed preservation as the breed is rare.

     

    Well, if I was concerned about temperament (which I was), how the puppies are socialized would be a HUGE concern for me (especially if I was purchasing a puppy older than 8-10 weeks).  Way more of a concern than show titles or a simple CGC test.  I actually chose Nikon's breeder because of how the puppies are handled and stimulated from birth to 8 weeks.  Stuff like that IS important to me which is why I did the research beforehand.  I got exactly the dog I wanted.  His behavior and temperament is exactly as predicted.  Besides the breeders neuro-stim and socialization program, I also chose based on the temperaments of the parents.  Environment and socialization can only go so far.  Genetics sets limits on the dog's temperament, drive, soundness, etc.  I know the dog's mother quite well, interact with her on a weekly basis.  I see her work, show, train, how she interacts in the house with people and dogs, how she interacts when people come to see her puppies.  Temperament was the top priority for me (I'd rather have a sound dog with the temperament I want and have a health problem than a perfectly healthy dog with behavioral problems). 

    If a breeder was doing everything else right BUT was not socializing dogs and using poor genetics as far as temperament, I would absolutely not consider them.  Champions or not, I don't see how that matters if the dog is not going to be a show dog and temperament is a priority.

    • Gold Top Dog

    jennypage

    That is an incredible article and I think what he is doing is awesome.  Thanks for explaining who he is and why you were quoting his blog. 

     

     No problem! His blog is good reading for anyone concerned about the issue of animals in shelters, he covers a wide variety of issues. http://www.nathanwinograd.com/

    • Bronze

     

    AgileGSD
    The breed I am involved in is a breed that has a natural build, natural size, natural ears and tails, is known for having outstanding reproductive health (natural breeders/whelpers) and is an overall pretty healthy breed that often lives into their mid to late teens. How does that figure into your "purebred dogs are unhealthy mutants" theory?

    I'm curious to know that breed this is? Certainly not the GSD who is much larger, less agile, and looks nothing like the original GSD. The barrel chested, cockroach back, ataxic, oversized dogs that we know call GSD are very different from those of Capt Stephanitz.

     And as far as Boxers, it is my understanding that they have shorter lives spans that compared to dogs of similar size.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Chuffy

    tenna

    Chuffy
    I don't call that a reputable breeder.  We clearly have different definitions/expectations when we hear the term, so I doubt we're going to agree.

     

    What about my story makes it seem like this this could not be a reputable breeder?

     

    The fact that the dog ended up in a shelter.  Had the breeder been MY kind of reputable (ethical is a better term I think), there would have been a take back policy in place for the life of the dog, regardless of where s/he was now. 

    If the breeder were ethical, this sounds like an unusual enough case so as to be remarkable.  Nothing and no one is infallible.... that goes without saying.

    As it IS so unlikely, I still don't see how responsible breeders are contributing to the number of dogs in shelters... the number they do "contribute" is negligible. (sp?)

     

    There's only one problem with your line of reasoning, and that is that dogs are surrendered to shelters all the time by owners who fail to remember the contract they signed that obligated them to return the dog to the reputable breeder should they be unable to care for it.  Shelters often take in dogs that they have no background information on, other than what the owner tells them.  Sometimes, the breeder never finds out.  The only way around this is to enact laws that provide for permanent identification of puppies - so that they can always be traced back to their source.  That might be enough to put some of the poorer breeders out of business because they won't want to be held responsible.  Reputable breeders would probably breathe a sigh of relief knowing that the pups they breed can always be returned to them, and NOT euth'ed in some shelter in a stranger's arms.

    Also, with regard to socialization of puppies, that is the owner's obligation!!!  If a breeder does minimal socialization, it is not too late, at age 8 weeks, for the owner to do it, and be successful.  However, if the owner does not do it, by 12-16 weeks, the window closes and, especially if the dog is of a breed that requires extensive socialization, the damage is often permanent.  You can socialize the crap out of a dog and still not totally counteract genetics, though, so every aggressive dog is not necessarily the product of breeder or owner inadequacy.  Genes can reappear without much notice, from parent dogs that had no health or temperament problems themselves, and owners cannot be held accountable for that.  Good breeders do all they can to minimize those possibilities, but one bad pup doesn't make a bad breeder (so long as they then take suspect dogs out of the breeding program and own up to the owners).

    • Gold Top Dog

    Corinthian

     

    AgileGSD
    The breed I am involved in is a breed that has a natural build, natural size, natural ears and tails, is known for having outstanding reproductive health (natural breeders/whelpers) and is an overall pretty healthy breed that often lives into their mid to late teens. How does that figure into your "purebred dogs are unhealthy mutants" theory?

    I'm curious to know that breed this is? Certainly not the GSD who is much larger, less agile, and looks nothing like the original GSD. The barrel chested, cockroach back, ataxic, oversized dogs that we know call GSD are very different from those of Capt Stephanitz.

     Belgian Shepherds.

     But FWIW my GSDs are not oversized or barrel chested. The one who I did agility with was often the fastest dog in her class at trials, out of all breeds (including BCs). I don't know what a "cockroach back" is but I have to assume you mean a roach back? Certainly not uncommon in the German Showlines but not widespread in all lines.  This is her running a CPE Level 3 course in 27 seconds at nine years old - the fastest time of any dog on that day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b978hwOAmJ8 Both of the GSDs are now 12, still aren't ataxic and are in pretty good overall health for "old dogs". Your description of modern GSDs also totally leaves out the working line dogs, many are very similar to the GSDs of Stephanitz's time.

    • Gold Top Dog

    sillysally
    Having a dog with a good temperament in my house is not a luxury, it is a must for any dog that comes into the house.  I don't consider not putting my dog selective dog through the stress of meeting multiple adult dogs when I know that a puppy will be less stressful for her a luxury, I consider it a no-brainer. 

     Well just like you saId yourself in an earlier post, you didn't need to get another dog, you wanted one.  Therefore, nothing about your situation was a necessity. Your dog is not the one deciding to bring a new animal in the house.  Based on your description of Sally and her tendecy to experience stress around other dogs, and the fact that you said you wanted a dog to do agility with, it sounds to me like you got another dog for yourself.  It IS a luxury that we can all pick and choose from numerous different types of dogs, all different shapes, sizes and temperments to find one that suits our particular lifestyles, whims and desires.  Like buying a car.  Heck, I consider a luxury that we can share our lives with dogs at all!

    • Gold Top Dog

    AgileGSD
     Skulls too small for their brains...you mean like Dobes who's brains swell and causing them to go crazy? 

    I am talking about Syringomyelia in Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

    AgileGSD
    What sort of "growth" problems?

    Giant breeds.  The fact that we have to so careful about what we feed them during their growth phase tells me they are too big for their own good.

     

    AgileGSD
    What breeds have "defective" tails and ears that need to be removed and how are they defective?

    Well, here I am going by what others have said on this board regarding justification for cropping and docking, that it needs to be done or their ears get infected or their tails get injured.  Or....it really is just cosmetic and those explanations are a load of BS.

    AgileGSD
     Many of the Brachy breeds don't have breathing problems. I am around multiple Boxers every day

    Boxers aren't as brachiocephalic as some other breeds. A simple comparison of their skull to that of a pug, peke or bulldog will tell you that.  And aren't boxers a breed that is having problems with a large percentage of them dying at young ages from cancer?  I do realize any dog can get cancer, but when almost every breed has a certain set of health problems inherant in that breed, it tells me that the purebreeding is not healthy.  Small gene pools =  greater likelihood of health problems, and that is the case for any species of animal.

     

    The personal blog just happens to be that of a man who founded a national organization to advocate on behalf of shelter  for shelter animals, who has been the shelter director for numerous successful no-kill shelters in both city and rural areas, who has wrote the most critically acclaimed book on animal shelter/rescue and been invited to speak all over the world. he has been involved with rescuing animals for much of his life. he is some one who is extremely active in running shelters, yet he doesn't place the blame on breeders, doesn't support spay/neuter laws and doesn't claim the issue is "overpopulation" (and has the numbers to back that up).

     The important issue isn't how to get shelters operating more efficiently, it is to prevent dogs from entering shelters to begin with.  That should be the goal.  A shelter, regardless of how well it is run is no place for any animal.  Also, this guy you are quoting is making a living from selling books, cds, dvds, and making public appearances.  Not to say that automatically discredits him, but I'm not going to take everything he says as fact either.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Corinthian

     

    AgileGSD
    The breed I am involved in is a breed that has a natural build, natural size, natural ears and tails, is known for having outstanding reproductive health (natural breeders/whelpers) and is an overall pretty healthy breed that often lives into their mid to late teens. How does that figure into your "purebred dogs are unhealthy mutants" theory?

    I'm curious to know that breed this is? Certainly not the GSD who is much larger, less agile, and looks nothing like the original GSD. The barrel chested, cockroach back, ataxic, oversized dogs that we know call GSD are very different from those of Capt Stephanitz.

     And as far as Boxers, it is my understanding that they have shorter lives spans that compared to dogs of similar size.

     

    She's refering to Belgians. 

    And not all GSDs are mutants.  My bitch is 21", 50lbs, "straight backed", very little angulation however moves very well and very balanced.  She is a UKC champion and has two big wins towards her Grand Champion so her conformation is not faulty even though she resembles an older era.  She has competed in conformation, rally obedience, dog sport obedience, herding, agility, bla bla bla....  Her father lived to be 14 and her mother 15.  You can find hoards of GSDs like this but they are not the ones getting all the exposure, not the targets of this sort of propoganda obviously since they are conformationally correct and healthy dogs.

    Old Sieger                                                                         My current dog
         

    • Gold Top Dog

    jenns

    The important issue isn't how to get shelters operating more efficiently, it is to prevent dogs from entering shelters to begin with.  That should be the goal. 

     

    That means the pet owners need to be more responsible with their dogs and do more research before making choices.

    When I worked in the shelter, we had just as many if not more dogs returned to the shelter (as in, they were adopted from the shelter to begin with) than dogs from good breeders getting dumped.  GSDs are really the only breed I'm involved in so I don't know good breeders vs. bad breeders of other breeds but during the time I was there we never once had a GSD from a reputable breeder.  They were all either pet store, puppy mill, or BYB dogs or adopted dogs returned.  It makes no sense to get on a soapbox and target responsible breeders when those make up such a marginal percentage of dogs that are actually in the shelters and rescues, especially if now your claim is that the most important issue is preventing dogs from being dumped.  You are targeting the wrong people which is a waste of your effort.

    • Gold Top Dog

    jenns

    AgileGSD
     Skulls too small for their brains...you mean like Dobes who's brains swell and causing them to go crazy? 

    I am talking about Syringomyelia in Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

     Cavs are in a rough place due to having been established from such a small gene pool. It will take outcrossing to another breed to help with their problems, which I am told is being looked into. I would personally not get involved witha  breed with so many helath issues but certainly don't feel it's my place to tell others they shouldn't be. And that certainly is not the case with all breeds, which you seem to ignore.

    jenns
    AgileGSD
    What sort of "growth" problems?

    Giant breeds.  The fact that we have to so careful about what we feed them during their growth phase tells me they are too big for their own good.

     What sort of growth problems?

    jenns
     
    AgileGSD
    What breeds have "defective" tails and ears that need to be removed and how are they defective?

    Well, here I am going by what others have said on this board regarding justification for cropping and docking, that it needs to be done or their ears get infected or their tails get injured.  Or....it really is just cosmetic and those explanations are a load of BS.

     Most docking started out with a purpose - to protect the dog's tail/ears from injury while working. With some breeds it is still done for funtional purposes (protecting a bird dog's normal tail from injury while hunting) but it is mostly cosmetic. It has never had anything to do with the dog's ears or tails being "defective".

    jenna
    AgileGSD
     Many of the Brachy breeds don't have breathing problems. I am around multiple Boxers every day

    Boxers aren't as brachiocephalic as some other breeds. A simple comparison of their skull to that of a pug, peke or bulldog will tell you that.  And aren't boxers a breed that is having problems with a large percentage of them dying at young ages from cancer?  I do realize any dog can get cancer, but when almost every breed has a certain set of health problems inherant in that breed, it tells me that the purebreeding is not healthy. 

      All dogs have the potential to have and produce genetic health problems. If mixes are so much healthier, why do they die of cancer? Why do they suffer from hip dyplasia? ACL tears? Back problems? Epilepsy? Why do mixes have temperament issues?

     And FWIW "Purebreeding" isn't a term anyone who is knowledgeable about dogs uses.

    tenna

     The important issue isn't how to get shelters operating more efficiently, it is to prevent dogs from entering shelters to begin with.  That should be the goal.  A shelter, regardless of how well it is run is no place for any animal.  Also, this guy you are quoting is making a living from selling books, cds, dvds, and making public appearances.  Not to say that automatically discredits him, but I'm not going to take everything he says as fact either.

     So who do you take for fact exactly? Why would you assume that because someone writes a book about a field that they have vast experience in, they must just be a salesperson? "This guy" actually quit his job as an attorny to make far less money working in the shelter community.

     The important issue has to be what happens to animals once they are in the shelter. There is nothing we can do to prevent many animals from entering the shelter, although there are programs shelters can put in place to assist owners who need behavioral ohelp or even help with vet/food bills. Even if the only dogs people had were all required altered prior to bveing sold (and if that were the case, you can bet that nearly all that would be available was early altered dogs from commercial breeders), there would still be dogs in shelters. There will alays be owners who get dogs and can't or won't keep them for whatever reason. That is the problem, not "overpopulation" but you are so set on bashing breeders and purebred dogs that you refuse to acknowledge anything that doesn't fit into your narrow viewpoint.

     Once animals enter a shelter, they become the shelter's responsbility regardless of circumstances. If a person found a dog wandering loose, brought him home checked classifieds for three days to see if anything lost him. On the fourth day they determined that no one was claiming him and they didn't want to deal with trying to place him for whatever reason, so took him and had him PTS. Would you say that dog have died because of "overpopulation"? If the person made a regular habit of picking up loose dogs and doing that same thing over and over, would they simply be doing what "had to be done" because of the "overpopulation"? If someone came here and said that they did that, I bet most people (including you) would strongly feel that the person was not doing right by the dogs they were, by bringing home taking responsibility for. That is the scenerio 1000 fold in many shelters in the US. How do you fail to see what a huge impact that has on the number of dogs dying in shelters every year? No matter what else, if shelter practices don't change dogs will continue to needlessly die.