Cropping and Docking

ORIGINAL: timsdat

The more I read your posts, the harder it is for me to really believe that you like or value dogs.. Saying things like "people should offer to eat shelter dogs", and "groups that are promoting animal rights are bad", and now, "dogs don't have any rights" ..... Very strange, in my opinion.

At least get the facts straight.  I never advocated that people eat shelter dogs. at as the AR groups are doing.  And yes dogs don't have rights.  It is a fact of law.

My apologies.  I mixed you up  with another poster on another thread......

I'm confused. I thought it was well-known that cropping and docking are (most times) done for cosmetic reasons only...

 
Same here. My aunt lives by a family who just had boxer pups about 2 months ago, and he got them cropped and docked early on, just for that exact reason. "They're suppose to look like that" [:@] eople like that frustrate me.
Tj has his tail docked, but he was like that when we got him from the animal shelter at about 9 weeks.

I am not sure about cutting the dogs ears but as for the tail that is not just for cosmetics. Dogs suche as the boxer , doberman etc. Its a good idea to cut their tail. Because their tail when they start wagging it goes really fast sometimes they might hit a hard object like a table really hard. This would cause the tail at times to split open. It would start bleeding and sometimes it is fixable. You wrap it with cloth and wait for it to heal. However the dog will keep wagging the tail which will not allow it to heal. So cutting the tail isnt just for cosmetics its also for their health.

ORIGINAL: Edie

Oh and i would love to see a show Lab do the work it was bred to do,it would fall over with heart failure before it began!Or what about a cocker,it would get tangled in the bushes and brambles in the first 5 minutes with all that hair.American bred cockers arent the true cocker spaniel IMO.

 
Well I say.. THATS A LOAD OF CRAP...  I have been mostly quiet while everyone sits back and fights over cats being declawed and tails being docked.. so on and so forth..  I say to each their own.. and you can preach till your face turns blue and if the person you are talking to is half as stubborn as you then... you have gotten no where??
 
I have owned labs... and I currently own an AMERICAN COCKER SPANIEL... She would surely be a hunter if I allowed her to be..she can spot a bunny or bird 50 yards away and she points at it.(and wants it so bad she can taste it...even though she hasn't hunted a day in her life...INSTINTS..are just the same).just like the BIG bird dogs.. I think you comment was RUDE to say the least.. I am not a huge fan of several  breeds but that dosen't make them any less of a dog.. because I don't care for them dosen't make me think they aren't a real dog as you stated an american cocker isn't a REAL cocker... AS OPPOSED TO WHAT A FAKE COCKER? that looks dumb even as I type it!
 
So what if you like a show coat? You average pet owner wont take the time to care for it!!  this makes them less of a cocker? Cockers wouldn't go over well with people who are used to short haired breeds that need bathed and brushed once a month if that!!  They require hard work to keep them in coat....  as I sit here and type this I just finished a 4 hour grooming session(cut, bath, brush and dry) with my cocker who I am growing into a full coat..
 
And if Pyper didn't have her dew claws that her stupid breeder didn't remove I would have NO problem what so ever letting her run around the woods with me... Its just when we got home we would need a bath and brush.... as apposed to you large short hair variety you can get off spraying with a hose... AND THIS IS JMO... we all have one right....

ORIGINAL: Edie

Oh and i would love to see a show Lab do the work it was bred to do,it would fall over with heart failure before it began!Or what about a cocker,it would get tangled in the bushes and brambles in the first 5 minutes with all that hair.American bred cockers arent the true cocker spaniel IMO.

Here are a few sites to visit about how well American Cocker Spaniels do in the field.

[linkhttp://www.versatilecockers.com/]http://www.versatilecockers.com/[/link]

[linkhttp://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CFPage?mode=article&objectID=31053&storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&langId=-1]http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CFPage?mode=article&objectID=31053&storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&langId=-1[/link]

[linkhttp://www.acscgb.com/outside_the_show_ring/index.album/ch-sundust-me-to?i=9&s=1]http://www.acscgb.com/outside_the_show_ring/index.album/ch-sundust-me-to?i=9&s=1[/link]

[linkhttp://www.cockers.org/index_files/Page835.htm]http://www.cockers.org/index_files/Page835.htm[/link]

. If the breed of choice has requirements of docking/cropping for confirmation - then the breeder will be docking the tails of the puppies at 2-3 days old. Why? Because you can not evaluate a puppy that young as not being show potential. The ears, depending on the age the breeder crops, may be aimed for the show ring, but then end up with a disqualifying fault after the ears are cropped.

 
The breeders pretty well know which pups in the litter are show quality or not..although some might not make it that they thought were.  Everytime a litter of Danes are born on my GD board...the breeders put pictures up for a while... the show quality dogs are cropped and the others are not with all of the breeders on my board. My guess is if you were purchasing a show quality Dane..you would want their ears cropped, if you are not interested in showing them... you might not care.

ORIGINAL: Edie



Oh and i would love to see a show Lab do the work it was bred to do,it would fall over with heart failure before it began!

Jack is show bred and is very drivey.  He regularly retrieves and swims.  I believe in the UK the show labs are required to pass a field test before they are allowed to get a CH in confo, and a great many show labs in the US earn hunt test titles.  I actually met a breeder at a large show in Chicago earlier this year who hunted his labs. 

While most show labs would not win at field trials, those trials hardly represent what goes on during a real life hunts.  They are more like hunts on steriods.  According to an artical in "Gun Dog" many hunters tend to shy away from the strictly field bred labs because they are often far more wired than what is prefered in lab temperment, and these dogs are companions as well as hunting partners.

I say to each his own when it comes to cropping and docking.  There are plenty of caring, loving owners who have given their blood, sweat, tears, and hard earned dollars to keep their dogs happy and healthy, who also happen to have cropped or docked their dogs.  Personally, I believe to then pass judgment on these owners using words such as "cruel" is small minded at the *very* least, especially when there is such very real evil being commited against animals everyday.

I can *completely* see the logic in docking tails to prevent injury to said tail.  Jack is only 13 months and has broken his tail open multiple times.  After the latest incident it looked like someone was brutally slaughtered in our kitchen.  We had everything you hear them talk about in CSI--blood "splatter, " blood "transfer."  Right now Jack has to wear a cone to prevent him from bothering the wound and has to have his tail wrapped up if he is going to play with Sally or have his cone off at all.  This will continue until the wound heals.

Amputation would be the very, very, very last resort for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that he uses his tail a lot when he swims.  However, in a breed that has a high incidence of tail injuries I really can see why people do this.  It really is not any fun for Jack to go through cone wearing and repeated tail injury, not to mention there is a great risk for repeated infection.  If the tail has to be amputated later on it carries much greater risks and longer healing time then docking as a  very young pup.  There really is no way to prevent it either, short of lashing the dog's tail to its hind leg or lining every hard surface in your house with a thick layer of bubble wrap.  It's not even like we have lots of hard furniture that we could move around to prevent Jack from whacking his tail--I've seen him break it open on walls before.  Furniture I can do without, but I would have to draw the lines at removing the walls.....[8D]

Fortunately labs were apparently born without pain receptors in their tails, because when Jack breaks his tail open he doesn't even react--the only way you know is all the blood.[sm=rolleyes.gif]

Regardless of what the dog was originally bred for, most are not used for that purpose these days. If you have a certain dog for breeding, hunting, herding then its different as you want to protect him againsts accidents or incidents having to do with his "job!"   Most people though I believe are talking pets or breeding or possible showing their dog, so I think we are back to cosmetic purposes.
I agree its not fair to talk against the owners that do it as they are preparing their pups for the future... its a practice that has been done so long. I would like it not done though, I must admit.   My only opinion is in my breed and that I do like the floppy ears better. That "alert" look that people talk about is not the better of the choices for me.
Sillysally, somewhere on the Internet I read of something that you can do to help while your dogs tail is healing, it might have been on this forum but I can't remember.  I thought it was something you can purchase but I just did a SEARCH and couldn't come up with anything.  When I read it I was going to save it..since our Ollie used to break open his tail on a regular basis. Danes are so bad about doing that...probably because of the mixture of that strong tail wag and the size of the dog..since they don't really fit in houses that well....lol!  Ollie used to break his open at my house in the same doorway each time...the one going into the laundry room which is where we could come home thru and he was waiting and wagging.     I learned to grab his tail first thing, to keep it from wagging into the doorway.    Bubblegums brother had his strapped to his underside while his was healing.  Would't that be better than an E collar?

Really late getting to this thread, but I did want to add that I now understand why certain breeds dock tails before there is every any injury to require it later in life.

Lexi wags her tag 24/7 and often (as in once a month) splits the tip open. It takes a week and a half to heal, her tail is bruised and hurts the whole time, and then in a few weeks, she repeats the act by whacking her tail on something hard again.

It's to the point that our vet is suggesting we dock her tail. She is 3 years old, and it is going to be crazy painful for her, and I hate to even think about doing it, but watching her lick her injured tail 70% of her life isn't a great option either.

I'd much rather dock a pups tail at one day old, than put any dog through what Lexi is going through. The batteries in my camera are dead at the moment, but if I get new ones today, I'll post a pic.

ORIGINAL: sillysally

I say to each his own when it comes to cropping and docking.  There are plenty of caring, loving owners who have given their blood, sweat, tears, and hard earned dollars to keep their dogs happy and healthy, who also happen to have cropped or docked their dogs.  Personally, I believe to then pass judgment on these owners using words such as "cruel" is small minded at the *very* least, especially when there is such very real evil being commited against animals everyday.

I can *completely* see the logic in docking tails to prevent injury to said tail.  Jack is only 13 months and has broken his tail open multiple times.  After the latest incident it looked like someone was brutally slaughtered in our kitchen.  We had everything you hear them talk about in CSI--blood "splatter, " blood "transfer."  Right now Jack has to wear a cone to prevent him from bothering the wound and has to have his tail wrapped up if he is going to play with Sally or have his cone off at all.  This will continue until the wound heals.

Amputation would be the very, very, very last resort for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that he uses his tail a lot when he swims.  However, in a breed that has a high incidence of tail injuries I really can see why people do this.  It really is not any fun for Jack to go through cone wearing and repeated tail injury, not to mention there is a great risk for repeated infection.  If the tail has to be amputated later on it carries much greater risks and longer healing time then docking as a  very young pup.  There really is no way to prevent it either, short of lashing the dog's tail to its hind leg or lining every hard surface in your house with a thick layer of bubble wrap.  It's not even like we have lots of hard furniture that we could move around to prevent Jack from whacking his tail--I've seen him break it open on walls before.  Furniture I can do without, but I would have to draw the lines at removing the walls.....[8D]

Fortunately labs were apparently born without pain receptors in their tails, because when Jack breaks his tail open he doesn't even react--the only way you know is all the blood.[sm=rolleyes.gif]

 
 
VERY WELL SAID INDEED!!!![]