Emergency Whistle Bait

mudpuppy

And they have to be things that you never use any other time.

this isn't necessarily true- I use a wide assortment of treats for recall training and use the same treats for other kinds of training.

For the shepherds, other things might work, but for her huskies it really has to be an exclusive thing.  We tried those little cans of salmon once, but they seemed to know that if they didn't come back, they'd likely get them at some other point in time. This is not regular recall training.  We use all kinds of different things for regular recall training, along with a long line.  This is kind of a last chance recall.  Like when they've decided to chase down a deer, or a truck and regular treats don't mean squat to a husky on the run.  I think the whistle breaks through that barrier just long enough to remind them that a really great treat is there if they come back right now.

Do dogs like honey?  Like that much?

huskymom

Do dogs like honey?  Like that much?

 

It might be worth a try and it could be a unique enough taste (ie., not savory like meat) to create a really good association with them.  Indie seems to really like sweet things, he LOVES apples and they make an easy, low fat training treat.  Woobie on the other hand, hates sweets and won't go near anything not savory.  She could test it on them and see if it spikes their interest.  The sticks certainly would fit the bill of easy to carry, enough for each dog, and non-perishable.  The ones I've seen in our local health food store aren't as long as the ones in the link so they'd be easy to stick in a pocket or a fanny pack. 

are you familiar with the concept of random reinforcement schedules? it makes training much more reliable if the dog really has no idea what they are going to get if they comply after, of course, they've been taught that they MIGHT get the worlds most amazing treat if they run to that whistle. It's the difference between a vending machine and a slot machine.

 If I am understanding it right.... this isnt something they will be required to do that often.  It's an EMERGENCY recall.... not a normal recall.  And although its not variable... it works and its powerful because its SO rare and SO high value...?

I think Gerbers (or one of the baby companies) has toddler pasta in a package..looks like ravioli without sauce, and it's on a shelf, so no refrigeration. 

This would work if her dogs think stuffed pasta is the greatest thing ever...mine are pasta fiends. 

 Exactly Chuffy. 

mudpuppy

are you familiar with the concept of random reinforcement schedules? it makes training much more reliable if the dog really has no idea what they are going to get if they comply after, of course, they've been taught that they MIGHT get the worlds most amazing treat if they run to that whistle. It's the difference between a vending machine and a slot machine.

Mudpuppy, the thing is, with a husky, MIGHT, is simply not good enough.  These are not biddable animals we are talking about.  She has only 2 huskies currently, and 4 GSD's.  The GSD's are not the problem.  I agree with using random treats, and at times no treats for teaching a reliable "Normal" recall.  I don't want my dogs to decide not to come to me ever because I'm not going to give them treats EVER.  I like to keep them thinking that they might get one, but not be totally crushed should they not.  This also helps when I don't have something to give them.  But I have to stress this one more time.  This is NOT a normal recall.  This is a recall for when their lives are in danger and it is not an option for them to come back.  Anyone that has ever had a husky will tell you, they come back if they want to, thats it.  Period.  Leave the leash on.  I've worked for 3 solid years on Crusher's recall, and its still, at best 60% without his remote collar.  And put a cat or an aggressive dog in front of him and forget it.  I might as well not even exist.  I'm not holding out for a reliable recall until he's really old and couldn't be bothered with running anymore...if that ever happens.  The emergency whistle is a trigger if you will.  It means something solid.  I don't blow it unless I have a Cesar ready for him the instant he gets back.  He can't have a single doubt in his head about whether he will get it when he gets back or he won't come back. 

Have you checked out Leslie Nelson's really reliable recall? she's training afghan hounds to come when called and doesn't insist the reward be some unique type of treat. A high-value treat yes. The danger of the dog knowing exactly what he will get when the whistle blows is he can then weigh in his mind "yummy freshly killed rabbit or tiny tin of dog food? hmm. Think I'll pass on the dog food today I haven't had a fresh rabbit for two years". Instead of thinking "yummy freshly killed rabbit or what? I wonder what mom has today- it might be better than rabbit I'll go see".

mudpuppy

The danger of the dog knowing exactly what he will get when the whistle blows is he can then weigh in his mind "yummy freshly killed rabbit or tiny tin of dog food? hmm. Think I'll pass on the dog food today I haven't had a fresh rabbit for two years". Instead of thinking "yummy freshly killed rabbit or what? I wonder what mom has today- it might be better than rabbit I'll go see".

 

I think a husky mind goes a little more like this: "Yummy freshly killed rabbit or what?  I wonder what mom has today?  could be better than the rabbit, but it might not.  Nope, I'll get the rabbit."

With the constant treat its like this: "Theres my whistle, a Cesar is gonna hit the ground in 2.2 seconds, I better be there to get it or somebody else will."   it doesn't matter if the rabbit is better than the Cesar.  The whistle causes a reaction.  In the beginning when you train it, you blow the whistle, drop the treat to the dog and go about your business like nothing happened.  The dog is left wondering why he got the treat.  Its not for coming.  It's just something that happens when the whistle is blown.  So in the beginning when the whistle gets blown 3 times a week the dog begins to associate the two.  After that when the whistle is blown less and less, the treat becomes more and more high value as its less frequent.  At once a month, that Cesar has all of a sudden become a T-Bone steak.  If you were to switch it up, it would make the dog wonder what he was going to get, adding thought to the reaction, and then the rabbit might be worth it.

 Ahhh, conditioned response, I got ya.  Like Pavlov and the dogs, they reach a point where they almost don't control their bodies because the conditioning has programmed a response in their bodies that they almost can't control.  Cool!

 Yeah Pavlovian.  I always like that term.  It reminds me of pudding.

I think both ways have their merits.... neither is right or wrong.  In fact you could probably use both if you chose to; I know I have lots of different recalls.... there's one that means, "come on, we're going this way", one that is an "invitation", one that means "come back, but no hurry" and one that means "jolly well get your hairy bums back here immediately something awesome could be happening any second!!"  If I was doing performance with dogs, I'd have a "formal" recall as well.

Chuffy

 Yeah Pavlovian.  I always like that term.  It reminds me of pudding.

I think both ways have their merits.... neither is right or wrong.  In fact you could probably use both if you chose to; I know I have lots of different recalls.... there's one that means, "come on, we're going this way", one that is an "invitation", one that means "come back, but no hurry" and one that means "jolly well get your hairy bums back here immediately something awesome could be happening any second!!"  If I was doing performance with dogs, I'd have a "formal" recall as well.

 

This reminded me of one other element.  The whistle.  We use a boat whistle so that the call is the same no matter what.  You know how when your dog is in danger, you voice goes all kinds of crazy?  And you can't do that if he's not in danger no matter how hard you try.  With the boat whistle(its just a little orange whistle on a string) the sound never varies.  So it always means the same thing.