Breeding For Kicks...

Well let's see -- usually I don't come into that situation because LONG AGO -- when I first met them, and we talked about health issues I found out  that the animal was unaltered. 

Right then I began to tell them NOT to breed this dog (unless they were showing/winning and had tons invested in all the testing they did so they were educating ME about it). 

I tend to find the easiest way tl dissuade people is to tell them how much work it is, and how incidious pyometra is.  A friend of mine was adamant she was gonna breed her maltese, *despite* all I had said until she told me one day right after the girl's first heat that she was kinda lethargic, didn't feel good since her heat, and gee what *might* be wrong? 

She said the word "lethargic" and I said "VET ... *now*!! and make sure the vet knows how recently this dog was in heat and that she's not spayed -- it sounds like pyo to me!"

It was -- the dog was unbelievably sick and she nearly lost her.  The only way they didn't lose her was *because* they got her treated/spayed a.s.a.p.  And NOW this gal things I'm 'smart' because I got her to spay her dog.  It changed this woman's entire outlook -- thankfully.

Normally when people have baby booties and dollar signs in their eyes they don't listen -- but when you tell them about Whelping 101 and staying awake with the dog so she doesn't get in trouble with labor when no one's around, and can they take off work for a few months to make sure they don't lose puppies, and .... and ... and ... suddenly breeding sounds like more work than they thot.

but no -- people don't often offer puppies to me b/c they know I've nagged them from the beginning about when the heck are they gonna alter THIS dog and if not, why not, and aren't you concerned about longevity?

Yep -- I'm in their face way before that.  And yep, some 'friends' go away never to return.  Altho -- they often "return" when they have a health problem with their dog they want help with .... *sigh*

I would definitely discourage someone from breeding their dogs if the dogs were not breeding quality.  Generally the best argument is the financial one.  Most people don't even consider that.  Going on and on about how horribly expensive it can be--the shots, the prenatal care--what if there is a problem? the mother could easily die, etc. generally changes minds more quickly than the "there are already too many dogs" argument.

In all honesty though, if a friend was absolutely insistent, and I was in the position of getting a pup, and I was not going to give them any money for it, I would have no issue taking one.  I really don't see how taking one for free encourages anything.  Buying one does, but taking it for free?  Eh...

I think of it this way--there are members on here who are into horses.  I would be willing to bet that the majority of us do not have horses that were gotten from a rescue (they probably paid money for them), and I also doubt that the majority have horses with top-of-the-line, best-of-the-best breeding (I know i don't).   Therefore, I can't see how taking a free puppy that was not brought into this world under the "right" circumstances is any worse than paying money for a horse that is not from a "cream of the crop" background....

It's difficult to get people who don't already understand why you shouldn't "whim" breed to comprehend what's wrong with it. Some people are still in an old age thinking when it comes to dogs and aren't up-to-date with modern thinking...and don't know why they should be. I'm a full supporter of purchasing an extremely well-bred dog (research breeders and choose one who knows everything under the sun about the breed and won't allow pups to go to homes that won't spay/neuter) if I want a purebred. Or I'm a support of getting a rescue if you aren't particular about having a purebred. But everything inbetween supports people breeding wrongly and that weakens the health of all dogs in any breed or dogs in general. People who breed on a whim have no idea what they are doing and they will breed all the faults and health issues into a whole new generation of dogs in addition to adding dogs to a world already overwhelmed with unwanted dogs. Is the person planning to "have fun" breeding even aware of what he/she will do if nobody at all will take the pups. Does that person want to raise 3 to 15 more dogs? Does that person want those pups to wind up at a shelter...or put to death because nobody wants them? Or to go to some home only to be discarded because they aren't healthy enough or "perfect" enough and then wind up either going from place to place or to a shelter to die later? I guess that's one of the problems I also have with creative breeding - mixing breeds. People screw up all the good health the serious breeders work for (not all breeders, just seriously caring breeders) by crossing genetic material that shouldn't cross. And it makes people think that if this person and that person can cross breeds then why the heck not do it themselves for fun. Raising a dog and breeding isn't "for fun." It's just ruining the future of dogs and it's thoughtless to put a female dog through the process of breeding just for fun too. Yeah...can you tell I disapprove. And no, I would NOT accept a puppy no matter how free it was from someone doing this because it only says "do it again" to them.

sillysally

In all honesty though, if a friend was absolutely insistent, and I was in the position of getting a pup, and I was not going to give them any money for it, I would have no issue taking one.  I really don't see how taking one for free encourages anything.  Buying one does, but taking it for free?  Eh...

I feel exactly the same way.  Sure, I'd try to talk them out of breeding in the first place but if they did it anyway, I wouldn't have a problem taking a free pup if it was offered.  That's not at all the same thing as buying one from a pet store.

Joyce

myshiloh

It's difficult to get people who don't already understand why you shouldn't "whim" breed to comprehend what's wrong with it. Some people are still in an old age thinking when it comes to dogs and aren't up-to-date with modern thinking...and don't know why they should be. I'm a full supporter of purchasing an extremely well-bred dog (research breeders and choose one who knows everything under the sun about the breed and won't allow pups to go to homes that won't spay/neuter) if I want a purebred. Or I'm a support of getting a rescue if you aren't particular about having a purebred. But everything inbetween supports people breeding wrongly and that weakens the health of all dogs in any breed or dogs in general. People who breed on a whim have no idea what they are doing and they will breed all the faults and health issues into a whole new generation of dogs in addition to adding dogs to a world already overwhelmed with unwanted dogs. Is the person planning to "have fun" breeding even aware of what he/she will do if nobody at all will take the pups. Does that person want to raise 3 to 15 more dogs? Does that person want those pups to wind up at a shelter...or put to death because nobody wants them? Or to go to some home only to be discarded because they aren't healthy enough or "perfect" enough and then wind up either going from place to place or to a shelter to die later? I guess that's one of the problems I also have with creative breeding - mixing breeds. People screw up all the good health the serious breeders work for (not all breeders, just seriously caring breeders) by crossing genetic material that shouldn't cross. And it makes people think that if this person and that person can cross breeds then why the heck not do it themselves for fun. Raising a dog and breeding isn't "for fun." It's just ruining the future of dogs and it's thoughtless to put a female dog through the process of breeding just for fun too. Yeah...can you tell I disapprove. And no, I would NOT accept a puppy no matter how free it was from someone doing this because it only says "do it again" to them.

Ditto.  And I would also echo what Callie said about telling them the negatives, and being in their face about it.  I have similar trouble convincing clients that the next time they buy a sweet little puppy, they should think about NOT doing the byb, whim breeder, pet store, Internet puppy mill, etc.  Like Callie, I often don't hear from them until they have a Cavachon that won't house train or a Labradoodle that isn't hypoallergenic and could I please find it a home... 

Therefore, I can't see how taking a free puppy that was not brought into this world under the "right" circumstances is any worse than paying money for a horse that is not from a "cream of the crop" background....

why is it ok to pay money to buy a horse from a backyard breeder? there's a rapidly getting serious horse over-population problem. There are lots of unhealthy horses out there due to bad breeding choices. Many of the people I know DO have rescue horses- they go to the "slaughter" auctions or the racehorse rescues. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable giving money to an actual horse breeder.

There are lots of horse that stay with their original owners until adulthood, and then for whatever reason are sold.  Even if you are the horse's second or third owner, you are still paying money for an animal bred by a backyard breeder--the breeder still made money at some point if cash exchanged hands.  People are making money off the sale of slaughter horses too.  As far as I am concerned, unless you get a horse for free or actually adopt a horse from a rescue, *someone* is making money off the deal.  I bought my gelding, an OTTSTB, directly from the owner.  I know I likely paid more than he was worth, but the other alternative was to see him go to the Amish while dealing with a pulled suspensory, and that was not something I was OK with.

If you take a dog for free from someone who is breeding that shouldn't be it just makes it that much easier for them to do it again because someone is taking the puppies off their hands.  They would think twice about it if they didn't have people saying they would take them-unless they planned on keeping all the puppies which isn't likely I would think.

I hate irresponsible breeding, people who do it for all the wrong reasons and creating puppies with who-knows-what health issues. I think we can try and educate someone about to make that choice, but it might just come off as a do-gooder attitude and be blown off.  I like the idea of stressing the financial aspect, but at the same time there are plenty of people who will just feed the puppies Ol' Roy and never take them to the vet before giving them away, hardly a financial commitment. 

 If I knew of someone who was about to breed their dogs and there was no talking them out of it, I don't personally see anything wrong with taking a pup.  At least it's one less pup that will possibly end up with a "free to good home" ad on Craigslist or worse, like a box outside of Wal Mart and a free puppy sign for anyone walking by.