Think this looks like a puppy mill??? Vent

So the kennel I posted could be a mix of both since they have litters almost ever month it seems and no genitic testing results listed anywhere on the site and misspelled words. 

scoobychick

http://www.harleys-paws.com/index.html

 Can someone check this breeder out and tell me if they are on the lines of byb or puppymill please? I know my huskies came from there but it looks like things have changed over the last year or so in a bad way.  To be labeled as a Puppymill does it fit under the numbers of litters a person has a year and bad enviroment they live in. I sometimes get Byb and Puppymill mixed up.

Looks more like a BYB than a puppymill.  The few dogs I looked at did not have any hips, elbows, cardiac, or eye certifications and I didn't see any titles.  However, their prices DO reflect what you are getting.  Some of their dogs are cheaper than what you would pay a rescue or shelter.  You're not getting titled, certified dogs and you are not paying for it.  Could be worse.  Some of the toy dog BYBs and puppy mills are charging over $1000 for untitled, uncertified dogs.

I don't know if there's a set definition, but I think of a puppymill as several breeds of dogs.  Like the breeder in the original post - I counted NINE different breeds being bred and sold (plus mixes of them). 

Liesje

The PayPal and payment method banners are higher and more prominently placed on the website than the dogs themselves.

That is the first thing I noticed. They care more about the $$$ coming in than the dogs. Sick. 

Pit_Pointer_Aussie

Liesje

The PayPal and payment method banners are higher and more prominently placed on the website than the dogs themselves.

 

That is the first thing I noticed. They care more about the $$$ coming in than the dogs. Sick. 

Yep.  The reputable breeders' sites I've seen don't even mention prices or payment methods.  Some of them mention the deposit and how much it is, but non talk about the money.  They ALL, however, provide their contract and a questionnaire, either on the page or as downloadable douments. 

The thing I noticed on the second site with the huskies, was the fact that they "ship" the dog.  I know this is going to sound stupid, no more than my last post, I suppose (lol), but how do you ship a dog?

 The store where Snuffa was orignally purchased from is a HORRIBLE puppy mill in the city.  The type of place you can't walk into with out getting upset.  There have been numerous complaints made, but the place somehow has grandfathered itself in, so it can't be touched.  They have a monkey, and a tiger on the premises (they have a zoo license)  Supposedly when Snuffa was purchased he was in a cage with the monkey!

They sell purebed and "designer dogs" it is truly a sad place, I had never been there until I got Snuffa.  Once I was told where he was from I went to check out the store.... it was very sad.  Luckily I had some information on the papers Snuffa came with, and on his "certificate" was a supposed breeder. 

Well I hunted down that breeder ( actually I found his mom first, heh kinda funny ) She gave me his number, and I spoke with him. When I chastised him for allowing one of his pups to end up in such an awful place. He claimed not to know one of his pups ended up in this pet store, he claimed that he only sells to "qualified, responsible" buyers, but this one buyer must have been a broker.  Them he promptly asked for the name of the pet store, and too my dismay, wanted there number only to  find out if he could do direct business with them in the future. 

Before all of this I did get some info on Snuff, his mom was a yellow lab, and his dad was a medium sized standard poodle.  The dad is supposedly a little shy ( I wonder why) and the mom supposedly is a very loving, happy go lucky lab.  The breeder was a very "simple" but I wouldn't say bad person.  I really don't think he thought he was doing anything wrong.   I'm sure Snuffa's parents were kept in AWFUL conditions....It was heart breaking to me. 

I've never shared this story here, because even though Snuff comes from a horrible place, I still love him very very much, he is my heart dog.  My fear is that somewhere in the well meaning crusade against breeding designer dogs the focus of the attacks shifts to the dogs, and this is not where it should be. 

kkearney

Don't get me started, though...people claiming that crosses don't shed? Nonsense!  The most successful crosses were labs and poodles, and done over a period of decades in Australia.  That project was virtually abandoned, since they could not make those dogs into non-shedding dogs.  Poodles also shed, but they are hair breeds, so they do not have the fur dander.  I love it when doodle owners say that their dogs don't shed, and I look at the poor dog's coat and it is hopelessly matted.  Poodles do tend to mat, and unless you are prepared to groom almost on a daily basis, it can become a mess.  Cross that with dogs that shed?  Ugh.  'Nuff said!  My soap box for the day...sorry for the rant.  :)

Karen

All dogs shed, I think when people say they don't shed they mean they shed like a poodle.  Like poodles they shed hair more similarly to people.  Meaning they need to be brushed often, or they will mat!   I have both a Standard and a mix, and neither of them shed like a furred dog, but they are groomed daily, and I never have ANY hair on my furniture, and they are not matted.

Janet808

The thing I noticed on the second site with the huskies, was the fact that they "ship" the dog.  I know this is going to sound stupid, no more than my last post, I suppose (lol), but how do you ship a dog?

You ship a dog in a crate, typically a VeriKennel (has to meet airline standards).  The dog has to be able to stand up in his crate, without ears touching.

I don't think shipping/not shipping is necessarily indicative of a reputable breeder vs. BYB.  Many reputable breeders will ship, to the right people.  Reputable breeders of German Shepherds often import dogs from Germany, Czech., Belgium, etc.  Without shipping, they could never outcross to strengthen their lines.  Some breeders will just ship to make a buck.

Janet808

 I'm not sure, but I must have missed something.  I didn't see anything dirty.  It looked like a breeder who breeds dogs and sells them.  They even had pics of the dogs in their new homes.  Everything looked pretty well kept to me.  Yeah, it looked like a lot of pups in a crate, but then again, they are still very small.  It's no different than buying a dog at a pet store, yet it might be better, since these are actual people.  Not a company.  They didn't show them at 8 wks. when you actually adopt, so it's hard to tell, but it all looked ok to me.  I know, I know, bring it on.  I'm no expert, that's why I didn't breed Tabitha, so let's hear what's wrong with what I just posted.  No offense!

Well, if you look at the paws in the adults, they are all stained. Also, one photo they have shaved the feet and not like normal poodle shaved feet, they've shaved them quite aways up on the leg. Probably because they were showing too much dirt for the photos. Must say, they don't look as dirty as some, but they can cover up a lot with photos. Looks aside, they are breeding way, way too many dogs, to be able to keep track of making sure all get the needed attention and socialization...looks like they are breeding these dogs about every time they come into heat. Why should these dogs cost so much money, when people gripe about paying $100 dollars for one from a rescue or shelter. Why is that, because they can get it that's all...put some fancy name on and put a hight price on it, put up some pretty pictures on the internet and people seem to be gullible and pay the price, especially since you can buy most of them on credit. Then after the newness and puppy stage is over, a good portion end up at shelters or in rescues, where the people gripe about paying $100. Of course the rescue has most likely put a lot more money into the dogs....spay/neuter, shots up to date, groomed, heartworm tested, etc. etc.,.as well as trying to match the dog to the owner, so that everyone will be happy. We just don't need people putting out dogs like they are merchandise and that is what this type of selling of animals is, so clean or not, it isn't right, not in my book anyway.