Physical Punishment for Kids.....

Bullymom

As I have said, I hate to spank Madison but if it gets results then it gets results.  I do not know what else to do.

IMO, if it gets results, you don't need to do anything else.

 Interesting discussions here.  i don't have kids, don't plan to, but at Thanksgiving we were over at the house of some friends for dinner.  Their boy is 3 years old now.  After dinner, still all sitting at the table, he gets up on the couch (right next to the table) and is standing on it.  his mom says "bottom, knees or smack".  She said that 3 times before she smacked his bottom and it was not very hard.  He laughed.  He stood up again.  She said those same words again, 3 times or so, then finally smacked his bottom, maybe a little harder, because after the second, he did not stand up again.

Now, had he been my child, I would have picked him up and got him off the couch and not let him back on and telling him why.  He can sit, stand or kneel on the floor for all I care.   If he did get back up on without permission and he stood again, off to time out or perhaps no warning and a spank.  He would have known at that point that he did something wrong.

Later on that night, he was throwing toys.  One plastic cup hit my sister in the arm. Didn't hurt, wasn't hard and no real big deal.  They wanted him to say sorry to her for hitting her.  He wouldn't do it.  They put him in time out twice before he finally whispered a "sorry" to her.

It's crazyness like that which keeps me solid in my resolve to not have kids. 
 

tashakota

It's crazyness like that which keeps me solid in my resolve to not have kids. 

I feel the same way sometimes. If that was my child in the story above and he was throwing toys, the rest of the night would be spent in his room. My feelings: In the company of others, children should be seen and not heard.

Now, that doesn't mean they need to be beaten into submission, but I don't think a spanking here or there is going to scar them for life. Like dog training, each child needs a customized training program!

I will also add that I have a sister who is 10 years younger than I am (no other siblings between us) and she was raised with times outs and all sorts of positive reinforcement, no spanking, etc. Now, at almost 18, my parents are rethinking the way they raised her because she is such a difficult, spoiled brat.

 

Pols debate ban on spanking
By Laurel J. Sweet | Tuesday, November 27, 2007 | http://www.bostonherald.com

Parents who spank their kids - even in their own homes - would be slapped by the long arm of the law under an Arlington nurse’s proposal to make Massachusetts the first state in the nation to outlaw corporal punishment.

Kathleen Wolf’s proposed legislation will be debated at a State House hearing tomorrow morning.

If signed into law, parents would be prohibited from forcefully laying a hand on any child under age 18 unless it was to wrest them from danger, lest they be charged with abuse or neglect.

Rep. Jay Kaufman, a Lexington Democrat, submitted the 61-year-old Wolf’s petition at her request, but is not taking a position for or against corporal punishment.

“He does recognize and understand the concern many would have on legislating parental rights,” said Sean Fitzgerald, Kaufman’s chief of staff, “but the problem is the boundary is often overstepped. The right to hit should never be the right to hurt.”

Charles Enloe, 45, of Plymouth, knows a little something about that. In 2005, he was infamously arrested and charged with assault with a dangerous weapon for taking a belt to his then 12-year-old son during an argument over homework.

The charges were later dropped and Enloe told the Herald yesterday the experience “didn’t change my views at all. I believe discipline starts at home. Are they going to start legislating that you can’t raise your voice to your kids? That you can’t tell them when to go to bed? We’ll be communists then.”

The state Supreme Judicial Court agreed in principle when it ruled in 1999 that parents can spank their kids provided they don’t threaten bodily injury.

Corporal punishment in the home is already illegal in Austria, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Israel, Latvia, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Romania, Sweden and the Ukraine.

In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban spanking. Anders Erickson, spokesman for the Embassy of Sweden in Washington, D.C., said in the 1960s 53 percent of Swedes backed corporal punishment of children. By the 1990s, that number was less than 10 percent.

“There are other ways and means to bring up children than to beat them,” Erickson said. “Much better ways.”

An ombudsman is available to children in Sweden to report allegations of corporal punishment. Parents face jail time if it’s found they’ve stepped out of line.

Chuffy

what have you tried APART from punishment?

Oh, where to begin...  Aside from spanking, I have tried Time Out, taking away stuff, treats for good behavior, talking to her, explaining why she shouldn't do things, I have even tried ignoring the bad behavior.  I set up a reward board, where I would giver her 10 stars for each weekday, if she had at least one star a day left, she would get to do something of her choice (get a toy, ice cream, ect.)  I would erase stars when ever she would act up (tell me no, throw something, throw a tantrum)  That system worked for about a week, then she told me that "she didn't care" 

probe1957

Bullymom

As I have said, I hate to spank Madison but if it gets results then it gets results.  I do not know what else to do.

IMO, if it gets results, you don't need to do anything else.

Tripe.  Thrashing a kid senseless would probably "get results" in that the child wouldn't do it again... but that doesn't mean you don't need to do anything else now, job done, finished, lets all eat cake. 

And I would argue that it doesn't seem to be getting results.  Bullymom has stated quite plainly that there seems to be an underlying problem... she suspects that she IS that problem and spanking is doing NOTHING to fix this problem.... something more seems to be required, but don't look at me; I am not a professional. 

Chuffy

And I would argue that it doesn't seem to be getting results

It gets one result...  It just makes Madison mad! 

Just a quick, inconvenient question. Did Kathleen Wolf ever have children?

Bullymom, have you ever talked to Madison's doctor about her behavior issues?  I seem to remember hearing about several defiance related disorders that cause some of the same behavior you're describing.  I have no idea if they're easy to diagnose or not, but it seems like there could be an underlying cause for the behavior and if there is, a proper diagnosis could really help your whole family work better together. 

Well, her daddy has ADHD.  It was really bad when he was little but as he got older, he learned to control it better.  I really do think that Madison may have a touch of it.  I worry about asking her doctor about it because nowadays most doctors want to start pumping medicine into children. 

I'm sorry you're having such trouble with her, it must be incredibly frustrating for you and difficult for her, too! I'm not sure where parents can turn with issues like this. Have you thought about maybe a child psychologist? Schools in the area might have some referrals. A psychologist/psychiatrist might be able to help you figure out whether she's having normal kid issues or something more serious, and either way I'm sure can give you some tips to help deal with her behavior.

Although physical punishment might seem to work sometimes with some kids, maybe there's a more effective way that the "spankers" just don't know about yet? The way I figure, if anyone's going to know effective and non-physical childrearing techniques, it ought to be (good) child psychologists/psychiatrists. After all, they go to school for about a zillion years to learn that sort of stuff!

If the dr tries to give medicine, can you just NOT give her medicine and look at your other options?  I mean, as her parent, you have the right to do that surly?  The dr does not have the last say?  Could you look at some online forums... are there any online ADHD forums where parents swap advice and stories maybe, to give you support... you might get great tips and would feel that you are not a bad parent and not alone....?

How much positive attention does she get from you each day?  Perhaps part of the underlying issue is attention seeking, maybe? 

What sort of games do you pay with her?   What do you do that tires her body and stretches her mind?  Some of the naughty kids are actually really bright and become better behaved when they get given more challenging work to do at school....?

Just a few more thoughts.