Choker collars - good or bad?

If you are only using a choke collar because your dog has a big ole neck and a small head, a martingale collar is designed for that just that issue. It has a "stop" so it never actually constricts the neck, it just tightens enough to make sure a dog can't back out of it if they have a big neck or a small head or both.

The fact of the matter is that these collars work because they hurt. If they didn't hurt, they wouldn't work. If it was just a tickle, it wouldn't stop the dog from doing anything, and indeed if you get a highly pain-resistant dog it won't work. I've used them plenty and I am not willing to use them anymore. I was purposefully hurting my dog in order to get him to do what I wanted, and I am not comfortable with that. I made him afraid of me hurting him and that is why he obeys. Again, that is not something I'm proud of.

Besides, using one did not train my dog to walk on a loose-leash, all it did was train him to avoid the pain of the choke so when we transitioned him to a flat-buckle, his loose-leash walking did not follow. He had to be retrained.

There's a big difference between the sound of the choker constricting and a clicker. A choker constricting means "I am about to hurt you unless you stop what you are doing." I used to train that way and I know all about the flinching that a dog will do right before they are popped. My own dog did it and I see people out with their own dogs all the time who also do that. They hear the sound and they flinch and cower.

I'm opposed to choke collars-- they've been shown to cause damage to dogs necks, and while you certainly can train a dog with one (i've done it), it's not very effective compared to other methods. The proper way to teach a dog to not-pull with a choker is to give him a hard jerk n release just before he pulls the leash taut. It takes a long time to train a dog using this method, requires a great deal of skill from the trainer, and the dog must undergo a lot of corrections before he figures out why he's being yanked on-- kind of like trying to learn how to drive with your instructor teaching you by hitting you with a ruler every time you do something wrong, but never telling you what exactly you have to do when right. You'll figure it out eventually.
 
Prong, well, message is very clear and requires no skill from the trainer. Most dogs instantly stop pulling after trying it once. Choker= lots corrections to teach message; prong= one or two corrections. Which is more effective?
 
If all you want to do is "communicate" to the dog, what's wrong with verbal markers?  I use "yes" to tell the dog he is right, and "uh oh" to tell him he is wrong.

I'm opposed to choke collars-- they've been shown to cause damage to dogs necks,
 
I'd say any sustained long term pulling on a buckle nylon collar, choke chain, OR nylon martinglae, will cause damage...that would subject the trachea area to much more stress that a jerk and release periodically used during a walk, rest of the time loose.
 
I see plenty of dogs on buckle collars straining, coughing, and choking themselves. Very sad their owners won't take the time to help them have a pleasant less hurtful walk! Or heck...admit defeat and train the dog to pull a cart....so you can sit while you walk...lmao.

admit defeat and train the dog to pull a cart....so you can sit while you walk...lmao.

 
Amen to that.[]
 
When I walk Shadow to the truck to get in, I just clip the lead to his id collar. But, for everything else, I have him in walking harness. If we are stopped and I hold my hand behind my hip, this keeps him at the heel position and he will sit. Other times, I will command a sit and he will obey. I didn't want to use regular collars because he can easily choke himself. I could contemplate a prong collar but it doesn't bother me that he pulls. It is what he was bred for. Instead, I command a stop along with stopping my own motion. That part was nothing more than doing it day after day, without treats, on our walks. After a while, the stop command gets associated with stopping. No punishment, no correction, just a fact in his universe.
 
If I were to change equipment and train the pull out of a sled dog, I would definitely get properly trained on the usage and how to train the dog to respond to it.

I command a stop along with stopping my own motion. That part was nothing more than doing it day after day, without treats, on our walks. After a while, the stop command gets associated with stopping. No punishment, no correction, just a fact in his universe.

That's what I've done as well. My dogs don't walk in perfect heel nor do I really need or want them to 95% of the time. But when I say "stop" they stop walking and look back at me for further instructions. This tends to break down only when Conrad sees another dog who's being reactive, and starts his own leash reactivity boogie.

I also walk Marlowe in a tracking harness. His breed trait is to lunge full force in the direction of prey and while I've pretty much trained this behavior out of him for everyday walking purposes (uphill battle? oh yes!), I would hate for him to have a moment of weakness, lunge, and injure his neck. He shouldn't have to pay for a momentary lapse in training with his trachea!

I think one of the biggest problems in teaching leash manners that people have doesn't really reside in their collars but in their leashes. A pulling/lunging dog who is still being trained doesn't belong on a 6 foot leash. We talk all the time about allowing a dog too much freedom in the house too fast, and this is the walking equivalent. With a dog way out in front of (or behind or beside) you, you're way too far away to provide either corrections of rewards (whatever floats your boat) effectively. I think probably the best investment I ever made was a one foot tab leash. I never had to reel Marlowe in in oder to stop him from lunging at prey and to work on our training. It was immediate. And in training, that kind of timing is important.

see plenty of dogs on buckle collars straining, coughing, and choking themselves. Very sad their owners won't take the time to help them have a pleasant less hurtful walk!

 
I agree. I'd much rather see a dog walking quietly in a prong than choking on a buckle collar, and worse, is people who put a choker on and let the dog choke itself non-stop. If you want to use a choker for some reason, get someone to show you you how to use it properly-- unlike prongs, they DON'T teach the dog not-pull without lots of participation from the other end of the leash.
The sad part is it's so easy to teach a puppy from day one to not pull. Once they develop the habit, well, then it's much tougher to fix.

The sad part is it's so easy to teach a puppy from day one to not pull. Once they develop the habit, well, then it's much tougher to fix.

 
Amen to THAT!
 
And so many other things...it goes from "aww it's cute when it does XXX" to "omg that's so annoying when it does XXX".

I'm also opposed to chain, check or choke collars, whatever you want to call them. I stopped using one when I had to use it to pull my dog out of the path of a charge from the dog next door. My dog froze and I had no choice but to yank her out of the way before the other dog could do her serious damage. I believe it saved her a trip to the vets, but at the same time, all 4 of her feet were off the ground for a moment and I immediately realised that could have been very ugly with the check chain. She's a small dog and didn't really need one anyway, so I stopped using it. Since then, I've discovered that she's much more responsive without it anyway. Collar pops never seemed to mean much to her.

Okay, so I also think it's important to tell your dog when it's doing something very bad, but I have never felt the need to do anything more than poke my dog in the ribs with a knuckle. For the vast majority of the time, a verbal correction is all that's required.