best approach to help someone switch foods

    • Gold Top Dog
    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm so glad this thread started. SO MANY really good ideas. And, btw - so many scary things that I didn't even know about... phenobarbital? Ethylene glycol and propylene glycol? ugh.

    Edited to say:
    Trishanne - that link is pretty shocking.. I'm going to post it on my Lab board. I have to say that i-dog is really the best for nutrition (as far as non-specialized boards go).
    • Gold Top Dog
    I was joking to some degree...
     
    BUT, it is the first thing I change when I walk into a behavioral consult.  It always helps!
     
    I encourage everyone to urge there friends in family to imrpove there dogs diets. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Trish, the whole 4-D meats thing is for me, the most compelling reason to feed a decent food. It just trumps everything else as far as I'm concerned. I mean, people drink propylene glycol in Dr. Pepper every day, it really is a different chemical than ethylene glycol (anti-freeze). I'm not saying it's GOOD, but that argument doesn't compel me the way the 4-D meats thing does.

    So that's what I usually talk about when trying to help someone decide what to feed their dog. I've seen that site before, yes, it's good.

    I agree that this discussion is great. So many great strategies! Together we are like some huge super computer.....hehe.....well.....okay, maybe we are like a Commodore 64......[sm=rotfl.gif]

    • Gold Top Dog
    Seriously, brochures and samples. We read ingredients lists together and act shocked together. It's delightful.


    How fun!

    Trish, thanks for the site, it looks like a good consolidation of some good facts.

    It's cold today, better get out the Innova before I walk the dogs [sm=wink.gif]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Jean wrote:
    Trish, the whole 4-D meats thing is for me, the most compelling reason to feed a decent food. It just trumps everything else as far as I'm concerned. I mean, people drink propylene glycol in Dr. Pepper every day, it really is a different chemical than ethylene glycol (anti-freeze). I'm not saying it's GOOD, but that argument doesn't compel me the way the 4-D meats thing does.

     
    Jean, I agree.  The 4-D's AND the continuing proof that Euthanized pets do, in fact, end up in rendering plants and eventually into the freaking dog food.   The problem is - that is SO shocking that you can't even come right out and tell people that - they think YOU'RE insane or that you're just some extremist spreading propoganda for PETA!!  You kinda need to work up to that one.
    • Puppy
    I absolutely agree with feeding premium food, but I don't know what exactly the 4Ds are? 
     
    On a good note, Canidae and Breeder's Choice had reps at the Philadelphia Pet Expo, so some of the better foods are making their way out to the general public.
    • Gold Top Dog
    [linkhttp://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=ingrd]http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=ingrd[/link]
     
    4-D animals (dead, dying, disabled, or diseased) - you can read more on the link above.  Basically these are the animals that are unfit for human consumption and are pumped full of chemicals to denature them. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    And to add to what Christine said 4-D meats are, they include euthanized animals, often without removing flea collars and including the euthanizing drugs.

    Excuse me while I puke.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Yep - like I said above - I generally don't even tell "regular" people this, cause they sincerely think I'M crazy.. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Yeah, it wasn't until I started a thread on it hear that I realized it was true. I thought it was nuts but it's not. It's real.
    • Gold Top Dog
    She might not be able to afford the best food out there.


    This statement makes absolutely no sense when considering actually 'affordability'.

    How can you say that someone 'can't afford' a good food if they're spending  for example :

    $20 on a 40 lb bag of crap... ProPlan, Pedigree or what-have-you.  Say the dog weighs 50lbs and you have to feed that dog 5-6 cups of food per day.  A bag of this would last at most 2 wks.

    A $40  30-35# bag of  a Super Premium quality food would last almost 7 weeks  if the feeding amount for a 50lb dog is 2 cups per day which it is for  many... ie Timberwolf, Merrick, Canidae and others

    That means in a 7 week period  this person would have actually spent almost DOUBLE to feed a crap quality food. 
    ( 7 wks @ every other week is 3.5 x $20 = $70)  as opposed to spending $40 ONCE in 7 wks.

    So where is the justification  in determining that this person 'cannot afford' to feed a quality food ??  Just because the cost is 'upfront' ?? That's  a poor excuse in my book.  It makes much more sense and is a clearly better value to spend the $40 once every month and a half than fork out $20 every two weeks and THAT is how you have to present it to them, along with all the nutritional facts,  other 'savings' factors such as reduced vet visits, reduced costs of over-the-counter remedies for problems like teeth, coat & skin, muscle & bones, etc etc etc, reduced waste pick up, better overall health and temperament, less risk of disease... ie cancer, liver & kidney, dermatological problems and allergies and so on.  You have to make them see MORE than just a DOLLAR VALUE.  A dog's overall health , well-being , better temperament & trainability  as well as reduced overall costs due to poor nutrition and illness ADD UP tremendously.

    Anyone who has the mindset that people who feed crap 'cannot afford' to feed well is taking the wrong approach and doesn't understand the real value and cost difference because you are basically just presenting this as an "expensive" food without letting them actually see HOW and WHERE they will actually save money over time and in the short run.  All they see from your approach is that they need to spend  MORE money because ALL of the benefits both healthwise and monetary wise are not being correctly explained and presented.   You HAVE to present the entire 'big picture' in order to successfully help them see where changing over is not only better for their dog's health but it's better for their pocketbook too.  Anyone who truely cares about their animals will be eager to switch when they can actually 'see' the savings and health benefits.

     ;People who are the kind of people who just treat their dog as a dog won't care no matter WHAT you tell them and will continue to feed crap because it's cheap and their pet's health and wellbeing is not really a concern with them. They consider their pets 'disposable' possessions.....not family members.

    I also find it VERY helpful to provide links ( if they have computers ) or a fact sheet to sites  like these so they can see for themselves :

    www.mordanna.com/petfood
    www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/petfood1.html
    www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/petfood2.html
    www.volhard.com/holistic/artbywv.htm
    www.5stardog.com/dog-food.asp
    www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0106-04.htm
    www.doglogic.com/food&feed.htm
    www.doberdogs.com/foodcht4i-q.html

    This is a great source to get books on nutrition and vaccines:
    www.thepowermall.com/bookbarn/pet.htm




    * As far as tooting Innova's horn: Innove advocates the inclusion of alot of CRAP ingredients in their foods. Here are some "approved" ingredients listed off  their website:

    BEET PULP :  used by CHEAP dogfood companies as a stool hardner. A clever way to deceive  consumers into thinking  their dog is actually getting all the nutrition they need by 'proof' of hard compact stools.

    CHICKEN DIGEST:    NO quality food should EVER have any kind of 'digest' included in their list of ingredients.

    CORN GLUTEN MEAL :  In a hypocritical statement they condemn the use of RICE GLUTEN MEAL saying it's a cheap by-product and a poor quality protein filler and that MEAT is always the best source of protein...yet they advocate CGM which is the exact same thing . They also condemn WHEAT GLUTEN MEAL for the same reasons.

    GROUND WHITE RICE:  . Just like white sugar is worse to use than brown and white flour is worse than wheat flour. White rice does not have the nutritional value of whole brown or wild rice.

    *PS... Innova also uses Menadione which is being scrutinized very heavily by knowledgeable consumers. You'll notice that you cannot find a COMPLETE list of the specific  ingredients in each formula anywhere on their site or anywhere else for that matter. They all just mimic what's on the Natura site.

    And as far as better foods go...if I would recommend Chicken Soup before Nutro. Nutro.. all formulas... still have questionable and inferior quality ingredients. Chicken  Soup has excellent quality ingredients for a VERY reasonable price.


    • Gold Top Dog
    Sharon, first, it's tough to get someone to go from $20 per bag to $40....I just about crapped when I saw the price of the super premiums compared to the Purina LBP that my VET recommended....talk about sticker shock!  But, the folks at idog had NICELY led me to water and I was ready to drink.
     
    I'm not sure where you are coming up with your Innova facts.....beet pulp??  Animal digest??  Not on MY ingredient list.
    • Puppy
    Anyone who truely cares about their animals will be eager to switch when they can actually 'see' the savings and health benefits.

     ;People who are the kind of people who just treat their dog as a dog won't care no matter WHAT you tell them and will continue to feed crap because it's cheap and their pet's health and wellbeing is not really a concern with them. They consider their pets 'disposable' possessions.....not family members.

     
    Well, I deal with this everyday of my life and I don't usually have the time to tell them all that before they start to ignore me.  Thanks for the links though, I was using bowchow.com and I think that link is dead now.
     
    I'm lucky enough to have a local feed store that only sells the best brands and advocates proper nutrition.  If I can get people to walk in the store and ask questions, my job is done.
     
    But most of the people that I deal with are the ones who think the dog is lucky enough to get fed.  If I can't steer people away from puppymill dogs (where all of the health problems begin in the first place IMO) then I surely can't tell them what to feed.  Some people are outraged when I tell them their dog should be spayed/neutered or that they should go the vet at least once a year.  People like that aren't going to change no matter what you do.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Sharon,

    I agree with you that the upfront cost is a poor excuse to not get the best for your pets.  And all of us here obviously will do anything for our dogs.  That being said the people we are talking about are not always as fanatical about their dogs as we are.  We all understand that feeding better food is more economical in the long run.  However try telling that to my sister.  She wouldnt believe you.  She wouldn't care about less poop to clean up either as she lives on acres of land and her dogs go in the bush to do thier business.  She doesnt keep track of when she buys dog food.  I write it on the  calender everytime I get a new bag or make a new batch of cookies, just so I can guage how much they eat.  She doesnt care.  So the bag of dog food that she gets is $30 as compared to the $70 I spend on mine.  And thats all she knows.  She doenst add it up over a month.  Don't get me wrong. She loves her dogs, but she is not the avid dog lover that all of us here are.  And I think the OP is dealing with one of these people.  Maybe closer to us than my sister.  I hope so.  But still we have to remember that all of our reasons are very clear to us but clear as mud to some other people.