Puggles?

I was going to share the very nice Puggle site I have bookmarked, but if you don't need it anymore...

ETA: aww poo nuggests....it's down right now...

 I think Puggles are absolutely adorable but I would never pay big bucks for a mixed breed dog.  I have a Pug/Rat Terrier mix that I paid $50 for.  (She's worth a million!)  I couldn't believe that there is an actual name for this mix - "Pugat".  When I found this out and that people actually breed this mix on purpose, I was stunned.  Chyna was an "oops" and not bred on purpose.

I think that anyone who would pay big bucks for a "designer dog" is crazy  There are enough mixed breed dogs out there already that need homes.  Just my two cents.  

To echo --- I think that anyone who would pay big bucks for a "designer dog" is crazy  There are enough mixed breed dogs out there already that need homes.  Just my two cents.

And, in addition, the overriding reason for not buying a designer dog is that most of the people breeding them ARE in it for the money, and you don't get either the genetic testing, or the lifetime guarantee that a responsible breeder does, and gives.  You get your Visa card swiped and a 72 hour health guarantee that isn't worth the paper it's printed on, since many diseases take longer than that to show up. 

Before I even went to go buy my puggle I looked around at shelters. Like I said before I think mixed dogs make a much better dog.. but I've had my share of pure bred dogs that I loved to death. I was shocked at how much it costs now to buy a mixed puppy and/or adult dog from a shelter. When I bought my other dog Buster (who's pic is on my signature) from a shelter he was about $50. (I remember that because I was 13 and saved up my own money to buy him.. now he himself is 13 and looks very good for his age lol) Do you know I paid the same price for my puggle that I would have paid if I bought a dog/puppy from a shelter? $150. Shelters are trying to find homes for these pets but they're raising the prices. It's insane.

lillizzierae

I actually got the puggle from a rescue. The house caught fire and the puppies were sent to a rescue.

Good for you for going through a rescue!!!! I don't ever begrudge anyone wanting a particular type of dog, it's how people sometimes go about getting them that really gets my goat sometimes. (Like buying a puppy in a pet store because it's "sooo cute" - argh!) I think a puggle gotten from a rescue is every bit as good as a papillon gotten from a rescue!

spiritdogs

And, in addition, the overriding reason for not buying a designer dog is that most of the people breeding them ARE in it for the money, and you don't get either the genetic testing, or the lifetime guarantee that a responsible breeder does, and gives.  You get your Visa card swiped and a 72 hour health guarantee that isn't worth the paper it's printed on, since many diseases take longer than that to show up. 

There two ways I'll "purchase" a dog - from a shelter or rescue group, and from a responsible breeder who is actively involved in rescue, as well all the health testing and temperament stuff. I could also see taking in a stray or taking a pup from an oops litter for free, but I will not give money to people who are behaving in ways I find irresponsible.*

(* the disclaimer is that I once, while grieving for a lost dog, bought a pup from a BYB at the mall. Came to my senses within a few hours and we returned her the next day.But in my right mind, the above statements stand.)
 

lillizzierae

 I was shocked at how much it costs now to buy a mixed puppy and/or adult dog from a shelter. When I bought my other dog Buster (who's pic is on my signature) from a shelter he was about $50. (I remember that because I was 13 and saved up my own money to buy him.. now he himself is 13 and looks very good for his age lol) Do you know I paid the same price for my puggle that I would have paid if I bought a dog/puppy from a shelter? $150. Shelters are trying to find homes for these pets but they're raising the prices. It's insane.

 

Do you know what is included in that $150 fee? Most likely it includes the spay or neuter surgery, up to date vaccinations, bloodwork, a microchip, and treatment for whatever the dog might have had when he came to the shelter (heartworm treatment, deworming, surgery for broken bones...). $150 is a steal!

Shelter fees have gone up because the cost of everything has gone up.  When I first started in rescue, we charged $150 for a medium sized dog and that included spay/neuter, vaccinations, HW, deworm, first meds, plus any training that the foster home might have done with the dog (here it included, for BCs, exposure to agility, flyball, and sheep).  Plus the dog is often delivered to the doorstep - today that's no small matter in itself with gas at $3.50 a gallon!  We usually had enough left over from that to go into a rainy day fun to cover the expenses of a dog like little Lynn, who racked up over $800 in medical bills her first three days here.

We eventually had to raise the fee to keep up with rises in medical costs.  $150 today doesn't even cover a simple sterilization surgery alone, much less all the other stuff.  As an independent rescuer, today, I can hold my fees down to simply make sure the dog has a good home and eat the deficit that each rescue runs (often I spend $100 in gas alone transporting, visiting potential homes, and finally bringing the dog to his new family).  But rescues can't run in the red all the time.

Anyone who's rescued a dog "from scratch" either off the street or from a minimal service shelter, can tell you that $150 these days is a steal.
 

Oh gosh.

First off, in my humble opinion pugs are kind of ugly little dogs.  They certainly make up for that in personality, but strictly looking at appearance, they sure aren't gonna win any beauty contests!

I do happen to share my home with purebreds.  But, I've also shared my home with some wonderful mixed breeds.  But, regardless of whether they are accidental breedings, or an attempt to line someones pockets, mixed breeds, designer breeds, whatever you call them, are all still MIXED BREEDS.  And, yeah, I think it's wrong for any human being to make a living from the fertility of their dogs.  I think it's wrong to create "niche" pups that will go out of vogue when the next hot little starlet starts sporting another "niche".

Responsible breeding is a major, major undertaking.  It is done to better the breed, and it is accurate that responsible breeders don't make money on breeding.  Creating "niche" pups is pretty generally done to fill a perceived need and pretty generally the folks filling that "need" don't give a rodents rear end about genetics, or testing for common health issues, or in any other way doing things "right".  This is pretty generally a money making endeavor, and IMHO it is wrong to use animals in that way.  Especially when so very many perfectly wonderful dogs are dying in shelters each and every day.

Becca, I'm really glad that your sister grew up and came to her senses.

I always laugh when people tell me that, since I have a purebred dog from a responsible breeder, I must have paid waaaay too much for her.  EVERY designer mix I have seen has cost AT LEAST double what I paid for Gypsy--sometimes MORE!

The local vets speuter many of the pets at our shelter for a token amount.  However, we chip, feed, socialize, train and generally make the dogs (and cats) a better animal than when they came in. We have kept some dogs for a year or more until the right home came along.  Heck, $150.00 doesn't even cover the cost of FOOD for a big dog for a year!

     I have absolutely no experience with Puggles but can say this for hybrig vigor - it don't exist. Period. If the sire/dam are affected with or carry the gene for a certain genetic condition, they will pass these traits on to the offspring. When you have an "outcross" that is essentially what hybrids are, that does diversify the genes. Doesn't really matter because more importantly than what the Beagle & Pug sire/dam were are what they produce. And what they produce is what they come from themselves. I can't imagine either dog being well bred, because no one interested in improving either breed would be making a litter of mongrols If the sire of the litter is a Pug and carries the gene for temperament problems, because his great grandsire had a bad temperament ... that is still very much a part of the "Puggle" pups genetic makeup. There is simply no smooth talking around it - breeding the hybrids is no different than pairing purebreds. Carriers will still produce problems in their litters, there is no magic wand that will make the Puggle healthier than the Beagle or Pup parents.
     When I was a kid, we had a "Lhasa Poo". He had a very mild seizure disorder and also a heart murmur. Heart problems are quite the thorn in the side of Lhasa breeders, and crossing with the poodle did NOTHING to erase the faulty genes that were obviously in the Lhasa line that produced Shadow. On that same note, my aunt has some sort of designer poo thingy dog. Missing a toe, horribly poor structure, and something going on with it's rear legs. Either a hip or knee problem, I have no idea which. Has a difficult tiem walking short distances. It is a havanese/bichon mix. We also have a mutt (a true Heinz 57 dog) that has never been too healthy. He's now 7yrs and we suspect kidney problems among other things. He's a genetic mess - his health is falling apart this past year. No, I really don't believe in hybrid vigor. They are certainly more vigorous than overly inbred dogs, but that's about it, IMHO.

$125 will get you a fully vetted, up to date on vaccines, microchipped, altered dog from a local rescue.  Yesterday they had what looked to be a full akita, a chocolate lab, and several pittie pups.  And those are just the pups.  One of the sweet boys is a grey/yellow lab mix.  I adore this boy, but he's been in foster care for THREE years.  He is a true SA dog who has gone out on trial several times, and gets brought back because someone didn't think a true SA dog can't be left home alone for several hours.  And then there is a lovely pittie girl who was attacked by a rottie in her last home.  Her vet bills must have exceeded her adoption fee.  Or how about the lovely dane whose people moved and left him behind in the yard?

Want a mix?  There are a number of those as well.  Lovely little dogs, often the result of irresponsible owners who don't alter or protect their female when she's in heat, and then, gosh, the pups don't sell, they become a lot of work, and they are dumped somewhere.

Backyard breeders keep pumping out these niche pups and often they will eventually end up at the shelter or in rescue.  And as long as we are willing to buy these pups, they will continue to produce them.  More often than not, these people really dont' give a whit what happens to the pup once they pocket their cash, and that's the true shame.  These are LIVES that are being so carelessly disregarded.

HoundMusic

 I can't imagine either dog being well bred, because no one interested in improving either breed would be making a litter of mongrols  

This is a very practical reason to be wary of designer dogs. In theory, an intentional mix can be as healthy and well-bred as a dog from a responsible and ethical breeder. In reality, the breeders who care deeply about health and responsible breeding are not producing mixes. The people who ARE producing these mixes - it is largely about money.

FWIW, my shelter mixes didn't cost much up front, but the problems and issues they have come with have cost me plenty. I've often joked that while Eko came with a hefty price tag, he will probably end up being less expensive than my rescues. 

Dog_ma

FWIW, my shelter mixes didn't cost much up front, but the problems and issues they have come with have cost me plenty. I've often joked that while Eko came with a hefty price tag, he will probably end up being less expensive than my rescues. 

     LOL - we were thinking the same thing recently! We have a 7yr old mutt from the pound who cost us $75. He has a severely depressed immune system. Came to us with pneumonia, never had the greatest coat, and we've always spent big bucks trying to improve his general health. After he hit 2yrs, it was a constant barrage of coat problems, eye & ear infections. Lately, it's been temperament problems that come & go - he's unreliable - we spent $$$ with thyroid tests, blood panels. For the past 10 months, he has had an ongoing ear infection. A BAD one. Will not clear up. Vet has had him on Mometamax (sp?), Otomax, steroids, antibiotics. It does not clear up, but might subside for a week or two. Diet has no effect on it. Raw, cooked, holistic to Purina - I have tried more foods and novelty proteins on this dog than I care to admit. Lately, I notice he has a minute sized cataract in one eye, and that same eyelid is beginning to droop - can't imagine what fun is in store for us with that.

     Then I have my purebreds, some of whom are inbred/linebred. Believe me, if I only had them, my Vet would go broke.