Man of the house wants his own dog- any suggestions???

Liesje

My understanding is that a Pyr should defend it's flock without hesitation, it should not wait for the human to come out asses the threat, and command the dog.

Exactly right, and the reason for that is all of the Big White Dogs (and some which are not white, Anatolians and Bergamascos and such) were developed to be left alone to guard.  In the case of the BWDs, shepherds would leave them with the flocks while they attended to business elsewhere, safe in the knowledge that the dogs had spent every waking and sleeping moment with the flock almost since birth and should the need arise, would defend the flock at all costs.

And that gets to the heart of why I would not recommend a Pyr for this situation even if you discount the unpredictable attack threshold.  LGDs bond with what they know, and they protect what they know.  Working puppies are placed with sheep within weeks after birth, are rarely separated from their flocks until they become too old to guard, and can become very uneasy if they are removed from their flock for any length of time.  These are traits which define LGDs, and no one should ever forget that Pyrs are LGDs, even if raised as pets the humans, other dogs, birds, guinea pigs and kids in the vicinity become their "flock".  The OP's partner wants a dog who will attack if needed but be a best friend to the kids and a Pyr WILL NOT bond strongly enough to kids it only sees a few times a month to be their best friend.  At best, it will tolerate or ignore them, accepting pats and strokes but never truly love them, and at worst....well, that's where unpredictable termperaments come in.  There is a significant possibility that the dog will view the kids as intruders when one of them suddenly does something alarming even if it has been fine with them for months.  Wanting the dog to bond with the kids implies a level of trust I would never grant to any breed of LGD regarding anything it does not see daily. 

I thought Boxers were good guard dogs?

To be honest if anyone broke into my house I would be more concerned with protecting my dog rather than the other way round.

YellowOx

I thought Boxers were good guard dogs?

Most Boxers are sort of like Labs now....the just wag there nub and follow the person around! LOL!

My friend has a Boxer, a Min Pin, and a Husky/GSD/Wolf/Akita/somthing like that mix. The Mutt and the Min Pin are better 'guard dogs' then the Boxer.

I'd go with all american mutt, a pyr, or something....IDK....

Really?   Is that just american lines or are they like that over here in europe too do you know?

YellowOx

Really?   Is that just american lines or are they like that over here in europe too do you know?

Might just be here in America.....the German lines might be different. Cocoa(Boxer) is an over-weight lover-bug.

I would sugest an older(past the puppy stage, which, like Labs, lasts 3-4 years) Boxer as a family dog. They can still 'look' intemidating to an intruder thou.

Boxers that are "working-bred" aren't like Labs, but yes, most boxers in America are very similar to the generic Lab temperament (although we all know some labs aren't really that way).  That's the way a lot of the guard breeds have become over the years.  I'm hard pressed to find a Dobe that would do well in schutzhund work here in America.  There are a few good working breeders, but not many.  That's why I'm saying that she should really discuss with him about what he really wants to do with the dog.  It's about a LOT more than breed, because breeds really don't mean all that much anymore.  Just because you get a Boxer or Dobe or GSD does NOT mean that it will work for you anymore.  It just means that it might have papers and look like what they are supposed to look like (in some cases not so much), but it doesn't really say anything about temperament.  There are plenty of Dobes that would be great family pets but wouldn't protect anything because they just don't have the nerve anymore.  Doesn't mean they are bad dogs, but that's just not really what I see as the standard.  On the other hand, many people would rather have a dog like that. 

I know exactly what you're saying wroking dog...  More and more breeders are breeding "for temperament".... great, but what KIND of temperament?  The temperament the breed is SUPPOSED to have, or are you just creating a Retriever with a different colour coat?

Sorry, back to topic.

I would honestly go for a large BLACK dog with pointy ears. That will LOOK more guardy.

Casey is small, but he has a large dog bark and growl. Do I doubt for a second he would protect me? Never. Is he a typical 'guard dog'? No - that's just laughable. But would someone think twice about coming into my house with him barking on the other side of the door? You betchya. And he's only 13 lbs.

Most dogs will suprise you when it's your life being threatened. How many stories do we see on the news about dogs saving the family as the house burns down? Those dogs aren't 'trained' to do that - it's just what DOGS do.

Have you honestly thought about just getting another BOXER??

Personally we've had Pom's our whole lives, 90% of them were females...this time we got a male Pom, and he's the absolute lover. I do believe male pom's have much better personality over the female.

But...I don't recommend them in a house with 2 bigger, probably clumzy dogs...I know my Dad's boxer was clumzy, but it would probably be a dog that would settle right in, as long as it was given it's own *space* which mine prefers an open-door crate.

My 6# pom holds his own and does just fine around other big dogs, but we've had him since he was 9mnths old.

To be honest, if an intruder is coming into your house despite two barking 70 pound boxers, you really need to be finding yourself a gun or a knife anyway.

Has he also thought about the practicalities of getting a guard dog in addition to two boxers?  I want a rottweiler, but in practice I dont think my wife would be able to physically control our existing staffy and a rottie on a walk, and wouldnt have time to walk them separately.  I cant be there all the time to walk them.

YellowOx

I want a rottweiler, but in practice I dont think my wife would be able to physically control our existing staffy and a rottie on a walk, and wouldnt have time to walk them separately.

Rotties are very gentle dogs. I've never once had a problem walking one, or a staffy for that matter. Leash train them properly, and you'll have no problems.

Leash training can make all the world....I once had an 85# Alaskan Malamute who weighed only 5# less then me, I'll admit when we first got her, it was a real trying experience, after a few weeks, she walked more gentle then our Pom's did.

I agree with what the others are saying about the dog possibly not making a difference anyway.  It seems that criminals are either afraid of dogs or they are not, and it's not something that depends on the dog of the moment.  For example, someone broke into an acquaintances house and he was afraid of dogs.  He intended to rape her but she had two (sick) boxers at her side and he eventually ran.  Her dogs did not even do anything or threaten the man, but for that person a visual deterrence was enough.  Now someone else who owned a working bred, Schutzhund trained male GSD (half brother to my Kenya) lost the dog because someone broke into their home and shot the dog.  This dog did attack the man (probably not so much a result of his training but his temperament) and was shot dead.  So, honestly it's very dangerous for a dog to be trained to attack or simply attack an intruder on their own.  Personally I'd rather have someone enter my home and rob me or come after me than kill my dogs to get them out of the way.  If I want real protection I'd spend money on an alarm system, probably cheaper than a really well bred dog and all the necessary training anyway.

Good point, Lies. If someone REALLY wants to break in, they're gonna do it and they're gonna kill your dogs regardless of what type you have. 

Benedict

powderhound

Pyrs aren't attack dogs.

 

I'm sorry but yes they are.  You may have been fortunate in meeting Pyrs bred more with the idea of keeping them as pets than for working ability...If not, you don't know where their threshold is.  Most LGDs will give an intruder (of 2 legged or 4 legged varieties) every single chance to get away, every warning they can think of.  But there is ALWAYS a point at which you see in their eyes the thought of "OK, I warned you, you did not listen and now you have made a big mistake". 

 They are NOT attack dogs, they are guard dogs and there is a world of difference between the two.  I have no idea the breeding of some of them, presumably pet, others I do know, some have been in homes where they do have a flock.  I would never push any dog just to see what would happen, but of those I have dealt with I often was coming into their house or vehicle unescorted and often without a prior meeting (be it house sitting or helping a handler at a show) or coming into their cage (at the kennel or hospital) and not one of them has reacted unfavorably.    I think the best part is that they WILL give every chance to escape before they act and that is precisely the reason I would recommend them.  With many dogs you're not that lucky, I've been bitten and had close calls by far more of the 'perfect family dogs' than any of these working dogs without doing anything that would be classified as 'pushing the dog's buttons'--one being simply opening a kennel door on a dog who was not acting aggressively, I didn't even give eye contact and the dog launched.  Another, a lab, came onto my property and attacked while I was simply walking to my front door. 

 
If the OP went to a breeder who goes for the all around dog--temperament for being in a home AND potentially guarding, that would be the most likely to be successful.  Almost every dog will attack if his owner/family is in real danger, the working breeds are a bit more controlled in their approach.  We have a similar thing in mals, there are the people who breed mostly for a working dog (they tend to be really hard), mostly for a pet home (too soft for working), and then there are the all around dogs that are still quite worthy for working dogs but friendly enough to do public education.  In this day and age I prefer to breed for that last group myself....