Man of the house wants his own dog- any suggestions???

Dog as security devices.... Hmmmmmm

This is the model I have.

This is pretty much a standard model. Very dependable and reliable. Sensitivity is moderate and it gives off a deep, high decibel alarm.

Our unit does have two optional upgrades. The snarl and foam at the mouth option. This option triggers when there is definite movement within our yard. The only problem with this option is that cats and possums seem to trigger this option on a regular basis.

The second option with this unit is the emergency vehicle option. This option gives off a loud howling noise whenever any emergency vehicle turns on their siren. Effective range of this option seems to be a radius of about 10 square miles.

We also have this model.

This model is a definite upgrade over the standard model. It is a more compact but yet much more durable design. It has greater sensitivity. (Notice the sensory antennas on top).

This unit also comes with a wider array of options.
The guttural growl and teeth bare option is a very nice feature. Providing both an audible and visual deterrent to intruders.

The following options are currently still in the programming stages. But once completely installed and functional they could prove to be very handy features.

First is the Knock em down and disembowel(trademark pending) option. This handy little feature turns this unit on command from a passive audible and visual alarm into an active deterrent and a physical barrier between an intruder and the home.

The second is the I can make the property line in 2.5 seconds, bet you can't feature. Again, this option changes the unit from a passive system to an active one with a single command.

And lastly there is the touch my master and I will rip your arm out of the socket feature. This is a last resort option. The only time it should be engaged is all other levels of deterrent have been breached.

Once programing and beta testing are complete, this will be a state of the art system incorporating a full feature passive and active unit in a compact and user friendly package.

boxer04athena

The more everyone comments i am starting to realize maybe he should just be happy with the big babies i have and forget about another dog.

I think it's reasonable for your SO to want a dog of "his own"...I'm getting another dog because I want a dog of MY own, since the one I have is stuck like glue to my DH, however  I think that perhaps your SO has unreasonable expectations of a potential dog.  He could have a guard dog, or he could have a dog who adores even occasional visitors, but he can't have both.  It would be different if the kids were there permanently.  

I posted the previous post as a bit of a joke.

 I do not  think it is unreasonable to have a protective dog that is good with the kids even though they are only around every other weekend.

It WILL take some work and socialization but it can be reality. You want a natural guardian. Not a dog with attack or bite work training. A good middle of the road GSD puppy would not be a bad choice. An ACD might not make a bad choice if you can handle the work ethic. In fact an ACD might match up well with the boxers energy wise. Although I think the average ACD might be in high energy mode long after the boxers are worn down. All in all, I think the GSD would be the easier dog to live with. But  A BUNCH of the herding breeds sort of fall into this catagory. 

Both of our dogs fit pretty well into a natural guardian role. Buc the Lab Mix tends to be very lab like but he has a little more fire in his belly than most Labs. I remain unsure what he is mixed with. He seems mostly Lab to me but there is something else there. Merlin the ACD is even more so a natural guardian. And in typical ACD fashion, he would stand off a herd of grizzly bears if they tried to come through the front door.

My wife and I do not have kids. But we have nieces and nephews that stay here often for short periods of time. We have friends over often. Many times with children. Our dogs are part of our lives and are never scooted away when others are over. (in fact if the one pair of nieces stay, Buc (the big black Lab mix) usually sleeps at the doorway of the guest bedroom or even in the room if they leave the door open. My ACD invariably sleeps near the foot of the bed on my side. Because I am the greatest human on earth (At least in his eyes) Both dogs do well with guests. play nicely with children (with supervision because if the dog is asked to be polite the child must be polite as well) and welcome everyone we bring into our home. But I can assure you that if someone tried crawling through a window at two am, it would not be pretty. Those two same dogs walk down the street and greet people we meet and like to be petted. But are cautious if I am walking one of them late at night at a time when most folks are long since retired for the evening ( I am a bit of an insomniac and often go for late night walks) and a stranger approaches.  

But all this takes WORK and lots of it. As I mentioned our dogs are part of our lives. They go all over with us. Merlin competes in conformation and will compete in herding. He HAS to be comfortable around strangers.

 The way this works is this.....

1) Socialization - and lots of it. If starting with a puppy, I do what I call 100/100/100. The goal here is to have the dog meet 100 new people/ go 100 new places  all within one hundred days. You want the people to be friendly and the experience to be positive. Its easy with a puppy because almost everyone will readily approach a puppy. With an adult dog, you have to guage where the dog is and work from there.

2) I am a firm believer in NILIF. My dogs live it from day one and then every day of their lives.

3) GOOD obedience traning. If you are dog savvy you can do it yourself. If you are less dog savvy take classes. But do not stop with a basic obedience class. You want to work hard at it (have fun but work at it) You want to get  to where the dog has all its commands down well, works equally well off lead as on, remains focused on you, and PROOF, PROOF, PROOF. Training is a lifelong committment with a dog. It starts the day the dog comes home and ends the day the dog passes on.

 4) More socialization - Never lock your dog away. Use new situations as training opportunities. One of the biggest reason that dogs become anti social is because they get locked away when guests come over. Instead of locking them away, use guests as training opportunities. Its best if you can get your closer friends to be the training aides.

In my life I have had a laundry list of dogs. Two Catahoula's, a couple of Pit Bulls, a Collie, Various Mixes, a Rottweiler, two ACD's (Merlin is my second and I do not see myself without an ACD again) and the Lab Mix Buc. All have basically followed the above principles. My grandfather said something to me many years ago. I have always taken it to heard. The comment came up when I as a child I was with him and we saw a bull mastiff type dog behind a fence acting very aggressive. I made a comment that I wanted a dog like that. His response..... The biggest toughest dog can never help you if it has to stay locked up.

 Four times in my life, dogs have helped defuse potentially bad situations.

Bronson the Rottweiler helped a couple of guys decide they did not want to start trouble with me out in public. I was blocked in by them and could not drive out of the situation. Mostly he just looked at them. But heck he was a Rottweiler and it didn't take more than that.

Doc my second Catahoula ran a guy that jimmied my front door  up a tree in the front yard at the house I owned at the time.

Bandit my previous ACD convinced a guy that was trying to break into my sliding glass door at this house, that he might be better to try somewhere else. The cops got him behind the neighbors house.

And Catcher my first Catahoula and Laddie my collie got the Santa Gertrudis Bull that was doing a hat dance on me, off of me. I was hurt but it could have been much worse.

4HAND

stanton

the owners of the dogs were reputable breeders.

 

Dogs running loose off their own property do not belong to reputable breeders.Reputable breeders train,contain,and supervise their dogs.My horses have been harrased by a Collie,an Aussie,a Husky and two GSD's .If I had not been home during the incidents they may even have been killed.The situation you describe is dangerous because the dog's owners allowed the pack to run around unsupervised,not because the dogs in question were pits.I don't mean to sound snarky.I would just like you think about how the blame for the attacks ultimatley belongs with the owners of those dogs.

Tena

These dogs were not allowed to run around in packs, that's the thing. All of these pits had been extremely well taken care of animals, with proper training. From my understanding a neighbors kid came over to visit and left the gates open.

In regards to the horse being attacked...this wasn't just an attack, this was beyond being viscious.

I too have had my share of horses and dogs, and I've never had an animal attack in such a way as these pits did. Except when you see the remenants of a horse after a mountain lion.

jdata

4HAND

Big black labrador.Looks imposing but usually good with kids and other dogs.I would never expect Jewel to go after anything but chipmonks but her size and deep bark are a deterant to anyone who comes to our home.People are scared of her if they don't know her and I like that living out in the boonies.

Tena 

Uhmm. Labs for deterrent work? Labs sleep through anything! :) Case in point, those two labs that died while a mountain cougar walked in the house as everyone was sleeping. The cougar took either both or one of them. It was in Colorado this year.

Actually, my lab is much more alert than my pit.  He will wake up before she does.  When we lived in an apartment some guy just walked in by mistake--Sally never even woke up.

Any large, dark colored dog is a good deterrent.  Jack is a 60 lb chocolate lab and if I am walking him and put him in an attention heel I have had people step off the side walk to avoid us.  The fact is that if someone is determined enough to break in despite the three large dogs in the house, they are likely also determined enough to shoot said dogs.

Honestly, if the primary reason for getting another dog is security, I would just invest in a good security system and be very public about it.  It will be cheaper in the long run, and a lot less work.

stanton

These dogs were not allowed to run around in packs, that's the thing. All of these pits had been extremely well taken care of animals, with proper training. From my understanding a neighbors kid came over to visit and left the gates open.

In regards to the horse being attacked...this wasn't just an attack, this was beyond being viscious.

I too have had my share of horses and dogs, and I've never had an animal attack in such a way as these pits did. Except when you see the remenants of a horse after a mountain lion.

Except that dogs are predators and horses are prey, it is quite normal and natural for predators to kill prey. Some breeds were especially developed to kill large prey animals, bully breeds being one of them and Great Danes being another. While it is sad and a horribel thing to have happen to the horse, it isn't "beyond being viscious" any more than a cat ripping apart a bird or mouse is.

AgileGSD

stanton

These dogs were not allowed to run around in packs, that's the thing. All of these pits had been extremely well taken care of animals, with proper training. From my understanding a neighbors kid came over to visit and left the gates open.

In regards to the horse being attacked...this wasn't just an attack, this was beyond being viscious.

I too have had my share of horses and dogs, and I've never had an animal attack in such a way as these pits did. Except when you see the remenants of a horse after a mountain lion.

Except that dogs are predators and horses are prey, it is quite normal and natural for predators to kill prey. Some breeds were especially developed to kill large prey animals, bully breeds being one of them and Great Danes being another. While it is sad and a horribel thing to have happen to the horse, it isn't "beyond being viscious" any more than a cat ripping apart a bird or mouse is.

 Ok...maybe not the horse issue.

But, what's the reasoning behind those same dogs attacking and nearly killing the ranch-hand? Is he considered prey? The ranch-hand simply walked up behind these dogs, never even touched them.

My whole point is you can't trust the pitbull breed *all the time*, I'm not saying EVERY one of them will turn on someone, but these dogs had been very well taken care of, and they still killed a horse (which ok, I understand is normal) however, it is not normal for a pack of dogs to instantly want to kill a human. I don't buy it.

Stay on topic, please.  Please start discussions in the appropriate areas if you wish to explore behaviour that is outside the scope of the original question, that being breeds which might be appropriate to the OP's situation and requirements. 

stanton

AgileGSD

stanton

These dogs were not allowed to run around in packs, that's the thing. All of these pits had been extremely well taken care of animals, with proper training. From my understanding a neighbors kid came over to visit and left the gates open.

In regards to the horse being attacked...this wasn't just an attack, this was beyond being viscious.

I too have had my share of horses and dogs, and I've never had an animal attack in such a way as these pits did. Except when you see the remenants of a horse after a mountain lion.

Except that dogs are predators and horses are prey, it is quite normal and natural for predators to kill prey. Some breeds were especially developed to kill large prey animals, bully breeds being one of them and Great Danes being another. While it is sad and a horribel thing to have happen to the horse, it isn't "beyond being viscious" any more than a cat ripping apart a bird or mouse is.

 Ok...maybe not the horse issue.

But, what's the reasoning behind those same dogs attacking and nearly killing the ranch-hand? Is he considered prey? The ranch-hand simply walked up behind these dogs, never even touched them.

My whole point is you can't trust the pitbull breed *all the time*, I'm not saying EVERY one of them will turn on someone, but these dogs had been very well taken care of, and they still killed a horse (which ok, I understand is normal) however, it is not normal for a pack of dogs to instantly want to kill a human. I don't buy it.

You are quite correct that it is not normal for a Pit to want to kill a human.  But, what is normal, and why it makes sense for our OP's SO to do his homework a bit better on dog breeds, is that the Pit is also a dog that is likely to redirect aggression when it is interrupted in an attack or aggressive sequence that has already started.  In fact, a lot of dogs, not just Pits, will redirect.  So, coming up behind the dog when it is focused on prey, attacking something, or intending to go after something, can cause it to turn and bite the thing that is there, be it animal or human.  That's how a lot of Pits get in real trouble with people.  They go after some dog, a humans tries to break it up, and voila.  When deciding what kind of dog to get, it's best to know the positives, the negatives, and even the not-so-common-but-sometimes stuff.  Anyone who does not know much about dogs should not be getting a guardian breed as their first experience.  And, more often than not, the third dog in a group is the one that people should be most careful choosing.  After all, if you have one of each gender, now you must add one that will be of same gender as one of the others.  If it's a dog aggressive breed, how does that work?   If it's a bossy female, will she fight with the resident female???  These things can be just as important as breed, when determining how to add a dog.  Temperament is very, very important.  

stanton

AgileGSD

stanton

These dogs were not allowed to run around in packs, that's the thing. All of these pits had been extremely well taken care of animals, with proper training. From my understanding a neighbors kid came over to visit and left the gates open.

In regards to the horse being attacked...this wasn't just an attack, this was beyond being viscious.

I too have had my share of horses and dogs, and I've never had an animal attack in such a way as these pits did. Except when you see the remenants of a horse after a mountain lion.

Except that dogs are predators and horses are prey, it is quite normal and natural for predators to kill prey. Some breeds were especially developed to kill large prey animals, bully breeds being one of them and Great Danes being another. While it is sad and a horribel thing to have happen to the horse, it isn't "beyond being viscious" any more than a cat ripping apart a bird or mouse is.

 Ok...maybe not the horse issue.

But, what's the reasoning behind those same dogs attacking and nearly killing the ranch-hand? Is he considered prey? The ranch-hand simply walked up behind these dogs, never even touched them.

My whole point is you can't trust the pitbull breed *all the time*, I'm not saying EVERY one of them will turn on someone, but these dogs had been very well taken care of, and they still killed a horse (which ok, I understand is normal) however, it is not normal for a pack of dogs to instantly want to kill a human. I don't buy it.

IMHO, anyone who trusts any breed all the time is being foolish.  Dogs are individuals.....

boxer04athena

I have 2 boxers (male+female)- but thats just it they are mine and i had them before me and my man got together. He wants a dog of his own- his 2 lil boys (3+4) visit every other weekend- so we have to have one that is excellent with kids- but on the other hand he wants a good watch dog that is ready to attack any unwanted person on our property- that wont take up with just one of us- that wont feel it has to protect him from me or vice versa.   He watched strangers the other night and i think he is terrified of someone coming into the house at night with everyone asleep- yeah we have to boxers but sometimes i wonder if they would even do anything. He is wanting a german shepherd but i just wanted to get on here and ask you all what breeds you think would be best- thanks!!

I'm just responding to the OP as I have not read through this thread yet.

I mainly want to clarify a few things.  First, German Shepherds make good Schutzhund dogs for three main reasons 1) they generally are closely bonded to humans/handler and work WITH people (as opposed to some of the hound, northern, pariah, etc breeds that are often described as being more independent), 2) good ones possess a very high level of drives and these drives can be developed into certain behaviors like obedience, tracking, and protection work, and 3) good ones have very solid, confident temperaments without being reactive, as well as an on/off switch.  German Shepherd dogs should NOT NOT NOT just attack a stranger coming onto a property just because they are a German Shepherd.  Look up articles on the dog Congo who was finally euthanized after attacking two people.  Fanciers of this breed like me do NOT want to see these dogs used for this purpose.  A German Shepherd dog is not bred or designed to be an estate/property guarding dog.  There are breeds for that, GSD is not one of them.  The "protection" work most of them do is built in early on using PREY drive.  Once the dog matures, defense drive is introduced, but even then a good many dogs with SchH titles work mostly in PREY drive.  I have a 17 week puppy GSD that will bark and growl on command, lunge and bite sleeves, etc and it is all built by prey drive.  Any person that approaches him is greeted with a paw shake and several licks in the face.

Now if you would be satisfied with a medium-large, scary looking dog that will alert bark and serve as a visual deterrent, then a GSD can very easily serve this purpose.  I'm not saying don't get a GSD.  In my perfect world, everyone would have one   Just be sure to do research b/c it sounds like your husband's desire for one is entirely based on the wrong way to breed and train these dogs.  You're in Kentucky right?  I know of a good breeder in KY if you are interested, not someone with a fancy web site but someone I have met and gotten good recommendations about, as far as his dogs and also his training (Schutzhund).

An untrained German Shepherd being used to guard property is like playing with matches next to a pile of M-80s.

Benedict

And I'd absolutely NOT suggest a Pyr...they've been overbred almost everywhere and are common enough to make it easily forgotten that they are an LGD breed and no LGD is for the faint-hearted.  I've also heard many negative things about the current state of temperaments in Pyrs and it's not encouraging.  I'm sure many individual Pyrs are lovely and I adore LGD breeds but I wouldn't see a Pyr as a safe bet.

There is no 'safe' bet, there's always a risk with any dog that it won't be an appropriate match, that's why the OP needs to actually contact breeders and have long talks.  This is one of those situations where I would not recommend a pound puppy, the request is too specific IMO for that.  "I've also heard" isn't the same as I know.  I know.  I've worked in the show and pet communities concurrently for over 15 years now and in neither have I ever met a nasty pyr, never met one that wasn't excellent with children or other people (with proper introductions like any dog), and have worked with enough of them personally to know they're pretty good dogs.  I have acquaintances who are breeders and their dogs are incredibly well tempered, a handler I worked for had a few and all were perfectly lovely to take care of--even the first time we met.  Sure they had been socialized but we owe that to any dog, showing or not.  We all know any dog can be awful if people don't know how to handle them and don't put the time into the dogs.  I've personally handled/cared for most of the breeds in the working group and of the guarding breeds and of the working dogs, they are one of the best for families.  I don't think the OP was looking for an attack dog, but rather a guard dog.  Pyrs aren't attack dogs.

And to the person who said his neighbor has a border collie and he's not foofy--LOL, I should have specified,  I was thinking of the rough coated collie.  Some men might think they're a bit foofy.  I didn't even think of the BC. 

 

boxer04athena

but on the other hand he wants a good watch dog that is ready to attack any unwanted person on our property- that wont take up with just one of us- that wont feel it has to protect him from me or vice versa. 

I haven't read all the replies.  So, just in response to the original post;

I think that the combination of requirements will be very hard to come by.  And, there is so much to consider.

I have an aggressive dog and there isn't a day that goes by that I don't have to micro manage some sort of situation involving people or kids or other animals.  It's a huge stressor, tiring and I certainly wouldn't want to be doing it with kids around.  It would be extremely difficult if not impossible to guarantee a kids safety because I couldn't watch both continuously.  I'm just giving you something to think about.  The type of dog you are describing would need to be highly trained to respond and that type of training alone would make him a one person dog--let alone that the breeds that are generally good at that sort of thing already are.

Also, something else too--my dog was brought here by my husband, but she is bonded to me.  So, there is always that chance that the dog will pic you as it's person if it is the type of breed you are considering. 

powderhound

"I've also heard" isn't the same as I know.

Please, please do not judge my level of knowledge unless I give you enough evidence to do so.  I have probably researched LGD breeds more than almost anyone on this forum, I read anything I can get my hands on about them and do such research almost daily.  I spend a significant amount of time around pastoral breeds and have a great deal of opportunity to observe them. 

powderhound

Pyrs aren't attack dogs.

I'm sorry but yes they are.  You may have been fortunate in meeting Pyrs bred more with the idea of keeping them as pets than for working ability and in a broad sense I do not have a problem with that, temperament is very important and is certainly high on my list of things to focus on with regards to getting my own Maremma Sheepdog.  But to say these dogs are not attack dogs is to diminish what they are - have you ever seen any of those Pyrs you met in a situation where they should attack?  If not, you don't know where their threshold is.  Most LGDs will give an intruder (of 2 legged or 4 legged varieties) every single chance to get away, every warning they can think of.  But there is ALWAYS a point at which you see in their eyes the thought of "OK, I warned you, you did not listen and now you have made a big mistake".  The point at which they get that look varies from breed to breed and from dog to dog - it's easiest to trigger in Komondorak, as a rule - but due to less than stellar breeding practices of Pyrs it is now much easier to trigger it in them than it should be.  ANY LGD with any working ability or instinct whatsover will attack a threat it has been unable to scare off and I would be extremely hesitant in recommending to a family, as is the case here, a breed in which that threshold has become unpredictable and in many many cases entirely too low. 

I have a lot more to say on this issue, but in the interests of staying on topic and being relevant, I will not.  

Kate, I have a friend/co-worker sitting behind me who would readily agree with you: Pyrs are attack dogs.  She has no doubt in her mind that ANY one of the Pyrs she's had over the years would defend any member of the "pack" (her current Pyrs are not true LGDs since she doesn't have other animals right now but they have spent considerable time with the neighbor's children and are basically trained that these children running in the yard are the "pack";).

Personally, I see a Pyr as far more of an attack dog than a GSD.  My understanding is that a Pyr should defend it's flock without hesitation, it should not wait for the human to come out asses the threat, and command the dog.  A GSD is a herding dog, not a flock guardian, and as far as Shutzhund goes, that is a sport intended to test the breed worthiness of the dog.  It is not personal protection training.  A GSD that attacks on his own would be considered unstable and personally I would have it put down.  Sure they are easily trained and will do what they are told, but they don't have that independent, think-on-their-feet ability like a good Pyr, nor have they been bred to be that way.