Man of the house wants his own dog- any suggestions???

I would definitely see how serious he is about protection training the dog before really deciding what dog you want and what route you'd like to go in getting a dog.  If he's actually wanting to be serious and do some schutzhund training (or any other type of sport, or even actual personal protection stuff), then I'd suggest going to a breeder that competes in these types of things.  I've seen excellent GSDs that were schutzhund trainined and I'd be happy with letting kids play with them, and then I've also seen schutzhund GSDs that I wouldn't dare touch, ever, let alone trust them with children.  I think Dobes would be a good choice, as well, but you have to get the right breeder.  I've run into so many fear-biters (and that includes GSDs too) that I'd never allow around kids, and that's simply due to poor breeding.  If he's really serious about this, you'll be paying a pretty penny for a pup that will suit your family, and even then it isn't completely guaranteed.  The important thing to remember is that a dog needs the proper temperament for protection work (some dogs training in schutzhund here should NOT be), and that if that dog has the right temperament, it will generally be good with kids, as well.  Sometimes you'll get a really hyperactive dog, or a dog that is too sharp.  They still make good protection dogs, but aren't the ideal. 

 Another good thing to remember is that any dog is capable of biting.  A properly trained protection dog is less likely to bite in the wrong situation, and even if it does happen to bite when it shouldn't, you can always call the dog off.  The good thing about protection training is that it involves a lot of obedience and control over the dog. 

If he's just wanting something that will bark when something out of the ordinary is going on, and possibly look formidable as well, I'd go with a shelter dog.  I know you said you were worried about past experiences the dog may have had, but in my experience dogs live in the present.  I currently have two shelter dogs and both have been wonderful pets, get along great with eachother, and fit really well with my lifestyle.  One is training in schutzhund right now (has a BH, and will be trialing in SchH I as soon as the next trial in my area pops up) and the other will be starting this spring.  I got Rafe at 6 months and Soda at 4 months, so they weren't adults, but weren't baby puppies, either.  Talk to a shelter/rescue and they can usually tell you some background, unless the dog was a stray pick-up.  I'd choose a confident dog, not one that's cowering in the corner or one that's throwing itself at the cage.  Honestly I don't think breed matters so much anymore, because there are so many willy-nilly breeders out there that you never know what the dog is actually going to be like.  Shelters are full of pit and lab mixes, and black dogs are usually the last to be adopted!  Another good thing about shelter/rescue dogs is that you can let the dogs meet beforehand to see how they react to eachother.  I'd just give it a try and see if you actually find anything you like. 

 My immediate reaction was 'get a pyrenees'.  They're guardians, gentle with children, but imposing being huge and all.  They also will alarm bark if needed and it SOUNDS like a really big dog, too!  They're really wonderful dogs for the family but I think most certainly would react if they were truly needed.  I agree too with a collie for the same reasons.  A collie may seem a little foofy for a man but the Pyrs are a big dog!  You could probably accomplish the same thing with a newfie, I don't know though because some of them are so sweet and goofy that other than their appearance they're not going to be incredibly useful.  Final idea is a pit bull or american bulldog.   They're wonderful dogs. 

 No lab, the last thing anyone will be afraid of is a lab.  Unless it's like my old neighbor's dog but that dog was a lawsuit waiting to happen.  Avoid the sledding breeds too, they're utterly useless for guarding of any kind and may not be as tolerant of kids.  We had someone come banging on the door while I was trying to sleep, I didn't answer so the person opened the door and then it slammed shut with a shriek.  Waiting quietly on the other side of the door were three silent malamutes, one has a way of looking right through people who aren't where they belong.  I couldn't sleep because I was laughing so hard.  The dogs were well known but it didn't stop someone from casing the house--found footprints in the snow all around the house one morning.  Couldn't move out of that place fast enough!!

 

Thank you all for all the advice- I am gonna start doing research into gsd, pits and dobes and get more info on them then try to look for an excellent breeder and ask them alot of questions!!!! Thanks guys!!!!

powderhound

A collie may seem a little foofy for a man but the Pyrs are a big dog!

The neighbor diagonal to me on the north has two Border Collies and a Heeler mix. I wouldn't describe him as "foofy", even on a bet. Then, again, his other property is a ranch and I think he works the dogs there. So, being in town is kind of a vacation to them.

powderhound

Waiting quietly on the other side of the door were three silent malamutes, one has a way of looking right through people who aren't where they belong.

I like that part. Shadow, at the right angle can resemble a timberwolf and I have known a few people who thought he was wolf or part wolf. And he has a sub-gutteral (not always a growl) that can rumble your guts. Nevermind that he won't bite and will maintain a few feet distance even as he alerts. It can be unnerving to someone not prepared for him. I don't encourage it and he will recall to me, even when he is alerting on a visitor. But your description reminded me of that.

Looks like I'm a day late & a dime short, but I would second a pyrenees. Of course I am a little partial though. Great wtih kids & other animals they grow up with. Very watchful. You can slowly peek out the blinds in the back window & our little girl Fury will immediatley turn to look at you no matter what she's doing or what direction she's facing. She's only 7 months old & is already the size of a large lab. Our obnoxious neighbors two doors down were terrified of her at 4 months old despite her friendly demeanor. DH's parents' have a male pyre/anatolian mix--no one is even allowed to get out of their cars without one of his parent's out there giving permission. However, very gentle once he decides you belong. He certainly has a preference for my mother-in-law, but will certainly put up a fierce show around strangers & probably bite if the situation got that far. Socialization is a good idea, but no protection training required.

boxer04athena

How is owning a Dobe? He says a long time ago he owned one and he would like to have another one of these days- if they are trained right are they ok with kids?

Owning a Dobe is fun, but challenging.

• They are a high energy breed.  If they aren't exercised, both mentally & physically, they will find things to do to entertain themselves.  Leaving a Dobe to entertain themselves is a disaster waiting to happen!
• They are inside dogs.  They want to be close to their family at all times.
• Socialization & training, from an early age, is a MUST.  Plan on continuing to train, & socialize throughout the lifetime of the dog.
• They are VERY intelligent.  They pick up very quickly, which is a double edged sword.  It is great to have a dog who can learn new things at the drop of the hat, but when that very intelligent dog decides that it's fun to outsmart you, it gets frustrating.
• Male on male aggression is common in the breed, so that is something to seriously consider since you already have one male.  Female on female aggression is common in Boxers, so there might be an issue there as well.
• Most Dobes do have a pretty high prey drive.  Obviously, some are more drivey than others, but it's pretty safe to count on some prey drive.
• A majority of Dobes are very sensitive dogs.  They pick up on their owner's mood, & adjust their behavior accordingly.  Screaming, & yelling will likely lead to a very stressed out dog.  DH & I cannot have a heated discussion with Bevo in the room.  Bev stresses, & because he is bonded to me, he will physically force DH away from me.
• There are some serious health issue that are common in the breed.  Cardio Myopathy, von Willebrands, hip/elbow dysplasia, & hypothroidism are common in the breed.

Bevo is great with kids.  He loves them, & wants nothing more than to be with them full time.  That being said, he does make me nervous around kids.  As a pup, & even now, on occasion, he will start running towards me at full speed, & forget to veer off.  Thus mowing me down in the process.  If he were to run over a child like that, he would, almost certainly, hurt the child.  He's a "leaner" so it isn't unusual for him to walk over & lean into people for a butt rub.  If he leans into a smaller kid then he's likely going to knock the kid over. 

While  I have a Boxer & a Dobe living together without issue, I will say that most Dobes that I know do not appreciate the play style of a Boxer.  Bevo does not play well with Boxers when we go to the dog park. 

Honestly if I were in your position, I would probably not consider a Dobe.  I would worry about one of your kids being hurt inadvertently.  I would worry about prey drive kicking in, & the dog giving chase to a kid.  I would worry that, while things might go fine at first, eventually there could be problems owning two breeds with such different play styles.  There would be too many serious concerns for me to tell you to go for it.  Obviously, you may feel differently.

I think the most important thing to think about is choosing a dog that will fit in with the other dogs and your lifestyle.  More important than thinking about protection...IMO.  Any good sized dog will be a deterrant just by the look alone.  Think about your current situation, how much time you will realistically spend training or competing (if at all); the resident dogs and the kids.

The other stuff will fall into place. 

boxer04athena

Thank you all for all the advice- I am gonna start doing research into gsd, pits and dobes and get more info on them then try to look for an excellent breeder and ask them alot of questions!!!! Thanks guys!!!!

One thing to watch out for - this is nothing against your DH, just something I have noticed with men in general - they get a breed like this, for the kind of reasons you decribe and inadvertantly encourage inappropriate behaviour.  Example - dog growls at a delivery person and they say "good boy!"  because they want the dog to "guard".  Seems logical - but what the dog should really be learning is that most people are NOT to be guarded against - that includes guests, children, etc, etc. 

The dog's instincts may urge him otherwise, especially if you go for a GSD or a similar breed.  They have a natural guarding instinct which is innate and something you don't have to train.  ("Protection", bite-work, that is different and DOES require a specific temperament and specific training.)  In fact, you want to train the OPPOSITE - he needs to teach the dog that most things aren't actually a threat.  This is where extensive socialisation and training come in.

Something your DH needs to understand - that most dogs,when it comes down to it, do NOT have the right temperament for protection and if actually confronted by someone will run rather than stand.  Essentially, unless he is willing to spend A LOT of time, money, effort etc. in finding and teaching a "protection" dog, ALL you will really have on your hands is a DETERRANT to intruders.  So - not so different from a large, dark coloured shelter mutt, if we're being honest.

My immediate reaction was 'get a pyrenees'.  They're guardians, gentle with children

Everyone likes to recommend the breeds they themselves like, but that isn't always the best dog for the family who is searching for their next companion, and incomplete information could be their downfall.  Pyrenees, like other LGD's, are often wonderful with the people and children they are raised with, but can consider others to be intruders.  That's fine if you live on a farm, understand the breed, and can manage one, but if you have kids, and they want all their friends to be able to visit any time they want, then it might not be such a great choice.  Not saying that, for our OP it wouldn't work, but when doing homework about ANY breed, take the time to talk to knowledgeable people who can also explain the down side to owning one.  You can often find such information on the rescue sites, since they deal with dogs that often do get dumped just for being who they are...

Here's a blurb from the Aussie club, just as an example: http://www.asca.org/About+Aussies/Personality+and+Character

ron2

powderhound

A collie may seem a little foofy for a man but the Pyrs are a big dog!

The neighbor diagonal to me on the north has two Border Collies and a Heeler mix. I wouldn't describe him as "foofy", even on a bet. Then, again, his other property is a ranch and I think he works the dogs there. So, being in town is kind of a vacation to them.

I wouldn't describe working cattle dogs or border collies as "foofy" either, but a collie (as in rough or smooth collie) is quite different. I've actually seem some excellent working rough and smooth collies, but in general they are bred much more as family companions than for intense working drive. They tend to be much more congenial around other dogs than many cattle dogs and border collies, and far more willing to put up with kids' shenanigans. The rough collies frankly do look kind of foofy, but as others have pointed out, a tri-color smooth collie can easily pass for a dobe cross, thus fulfilling the manly desire to look like he has a big mean dog, while decreasing the likelihood of ending up bankrupt if said manly man actually gets a big mean dog.

boxer04athena

Thank you all for all the advice- I am gonna start doing research into gsd, pits and dobes and get more info on them then try to look for an excellent breeder and ask them alot of questions!!!! Thanks guys!!!!

You are getting excellent advice. And ignoring most of it. Pits have historically been bred to have a strong desire to fight with other dogs. Is that really the kind of dog you want to bring into a household with two resident boxers? I think pits have delightful personalities, but the overwhelmingly huge majority of them are not bred by responsible breeders, and the breeders who are responsible won't sell a pit puppy to someone who wants a guard dog. So, if you go for a pit for a guard dog, pretty much by definition your only sources will be irresponsible breeders or rescues who aren't responsible about whom they place a dog with. Just what you need in a household with two kids and two dogs - an irresponsibly bred pit bull. Bevo gave a great description of life with a dobe. Again, most of the dobes I know are fantastic dogs for highly committed owners. But they are often not fond of other dogs, they tend to be sort of one-person dogs, they are extremely high energy, and they need a lot of attention to keep their brilliant little minds occupied. And, as I said before, a well bred GSD is a great dog, but well bred GSD's are almost as rare as well bred pits. And again, most responsible GSD breeders are going to be pretty reluctant to place a GSD in a family with two young kids and an Dad who has no dog training experience but wants a macho guard dog. You can do all the research in the world, but every breeder is going to CLAIM to be responsible. The way you'll be able to discern who is REALLY responsible is by who won't sell a GSD to a person with no dog training experience but wants a dog as a potential weapon. Get a medium to largish sized dog that likes to bark at strangers, and install a burglar alarm system in your house.

buster the show dog

the manly desire to look like he has a big mean dog, while decreasing the likelihood of ending up bankrupt if said manly man actually gets a big mean dog.

love it!!

stanton

the owners of the dogs were reputable breeders.

Dogs running loose off their own property do not belong to reputable breeders.Reputable breeders train,contain,and supervise their dogs.My horses have been harrased by a Collie,an Aussie,a Husky and two GSD's .If I had not been home during the incidents they may even have been killed.The situation you describe is dangerous because the dog's owners allowed the pack to run around unsupervised,not because the dogs in question were pits.I don't mean to sound snarky.I would just like you think about how the blame for the attacks ultimatley belongs with the owners of those dogs.

Tena

 To get back on topic...

Any breed with a guarding instinct that translates to attacking unwanted visitors is highly likely, IMHO, to view kids who turn up for a few days a month as unwanted visitors.  It may learn to tolerate them when you make it clear the kids belong on the property, but I wouldn't bank on the dog ever being the kids' best friend.  If you think about it, you'll be asking 2 diametrically opposed things of the dog: 1, attack people who are unwelcome, usually signalled by said people not being known to the dog, and behaving oddly/shiftily.  2, love the kids, except the dog is not going to know them very well either AND kids often (in the eyes of a dog) behave oddly. 

A dog who will guard to the extent of attack needs to know what it is guarding and WANT to guard those things.   It just isn't very likely to view kids it sees rarely as part of what it should defend...and that's OK, if all you want is a guard dog since as I said above, it will learn to accept the kids as having a right to be there.  I just think that it's unfair to ask any dog with a naturally reserved, wary nature (which is what makes a good guard dog, partly) to love any people it barely sees.

And I'd absolutely NOT suggest a Pyr...they've been overbred almost everywhere and are common enough to make it easily forgotten that they are an LGD breed and no LGD is for the faint-hearted.  I've also heard many negative things about the current state of temperaments in Pyrs and it's not encouraging.  I'm sure many individual Pyrs are lovely and I adore LGD breeds but I wouldn't see a Pyr as a safe bet.

Benedict

Any breed with a guarding instinct that translates to attacking unwanted visitors is highly likely, IMHO, to view kids who turn up for a few days a month as unwanted visitors.  It may learn to tolerate them when you make it clear the kids belong on the property, but I wouldn't bank on the dog ever being the kids' best friend.  If you think about it, you'll be asking 2 diametrically opposed things of the dog: 1, attack people who are unwelcome, usually signalled by said people not being known to the dog, and behaving oddly/shiftily.  2, love the kids, except the dog is not going to know them very well either AND kids often (in the eyes of a dog) behave oddly.