High drive dogs

Before drive I'd consider what you want temperament wise.  The way the dog handles it's drive is also tied into it's temperament as an individual and a temperament in general as a breed.

The Malinois for example can be a MARVELOUS working dog, but compared to a proper stable Shepherd, a proper stable Malinois is still more reactive and sharp than a German Shepherd Dog.  "Act first, think later"  where as the GSD is "Think, assess, if time ask handler, act"

Your trainer also seems to have suggested "harder" dogs for you.

Have you considered perhaps a German bred Boxer, Doberman, or Rottweiler?  A Beauceron perhaps?  I hear good things about them

 Never thought about boxers before.. Hmm.. Didn't even know that they bred german boxers.

She is wanting me to get a "harder" dog. Maze just makes it to easy for me. Lol.  Always wanted a Doberman..

I'm surprised that she would steer you away from GSDs and toward harder, more drivey, and/or reactive dogs.  I have always wanted a Mal or a Dutchie (even a Kelpie) but decided to start with GSDs.  Some SchH people have told me that the Mal is the GSD without the breaks or "off" switch and can be much more reactive and less forgiving of handler mistakes.  I've also been told (and witnessed) that some Rottweilers tend to be more reactive.  Personally, I still think Tracy Bullinger is a good choice.  She is a good, experienced breeder.  Her dogs are primarily show lines but I've been told more than once that she is more selective about drive and working ability than most show breeders.  I saw her team and several of their dogs this past weekend, no red flags. 

I guess I never considered my gsds to be high drive dogs.  They work hard, play hard, but overall, have a very convenient OFF switch for in the house.  Maybe it's just training?

I do agree that temperment is key, and I agree that the gsd does think before acting.  I can't comment on the others since I've no first hand experience with them, but, for a first time "drivey" dog, I think a gsd is a good start.  My crew can certainly keep me on my toes.

glenmar

I guess I never considered my gsds to be high drive dogs.  They work hard, play hard, but overall, have a very convenient OFF switch for in the house.  Maybe it's just training?

Probably breeding and socialization.  Most people who *want* a drivey dog are looking for dogs selectively bred that way (working lines dogs with proven drive, watching parents train and compete to demonstrate that drive).  I've watched Nikon's mother doing bitework and she is very aggressive and intense but even then I can't expect him to have super drives since he is primarily German show lines and they breed for enough drive to get buy as far as courage tests and breed survey but aren't what I'd call really drivey dogs.  Also I think when the dogs are young there are ways of bringing out that drive, or not bringing it out.  I don't think you can suppress it 100% but if it's never encouraged and used you'll probably end up with a dog that doesn't appear very drivey. My Kenya is such a dog.  Her father was a High In Trial SchH dog (working lines) and her cousins and half brothers do SchH, police work, etc. but Kenya's breeder didn't tug with her when she was little and she ended up with a family rather than a working home.  So I have to work harder to get her in drive and when she IS in drive I have to really encourage it rather than her thinking it is "bad" (tugging, barking, getting all worked up).

Here is an odd side note  , I have owned GSDs and Loved them , Never owned a Belgian BUT I did put on an attack sleeve and allow a Trained Mal to attack me for a Kennel Club demo.... O M G!!!!!!   They are not as big as the GSD but they hit like a Mack Truck.

Not a lot of help I know, but it came to mind when I read your OP.....  And sure changed my perception of the breed !! Not a Small thing about them.

Hugs

Bonita of Bwana

I think I would first look at what you want to do with the dog and temperament and then go from there. There are so many great breeds out there, that it's worth starting with a broad, inclusive list and researching all of them, even if you don't think they will be appealing initially. I hated the first Aussie I met, and now realize the problem was her owner, not the dog! Now, I don't know that I will ever have another breed, because these guys are such a great fit for me.

You have cats, I wouldn't suggest a Cattle dog....they will herd your cats, and they tend to be very nippy.

Belgian's are great dogs, a friend of mine had one, she was Ok with the cat, and great with they're Yorkie. High drive, fairly easy to train.

I don't have any experience with Kelpies, but I've heard they're really great.

What about Aussies? Border Collies? Weimaraner? I don't know much about Weim's but the one's I've met seem to have very good focus, very attentive to they're owners.

Just throwing out a few thoughts...

Edit - didn't read everyones posts until later....I'd go for a Rottie - but thats just me, I like them. They are great family dogs, but also very protective, and do not give up. Boxers are cool too, and the lovely 'off' switch of American bred Boxers is great.

My Mom had a Dobie when my brother was a baby, he wouldn't let anyone in the house without the OK,yet, Hondo(her Dobie) helped teach my brother how to walk...not sure if that helps any, but, yeaa.

Interesting, Liesje.  Thor and Sheba, and Shadow, by extension, are from German Working Lines.  Thunder I'm not sure but I think they told me german show lines, Theo and Tyler were also german show lines.

I might not be real clear on the defination of drivey...to me that means a dog that just flat doesn't have an off switch and wants to go 24/7.

I don't see an issue with cats and any of the breeds mentioned.  GSD's are herders and mine have been taught that they don't get to herd people OR my cats.  And I always make sure that my cats have a "safe room", but they do have to be taught that the kitties are not for herding.

With the pain issues you talk about in your other threads I wonder if a smaller dog,like an aussie from true working lines might not be a better fit than a larger more powerful dog

Tena.

Liesje

I've watched Nikon's mother doing bitework and she is very aggressive and intense but even then I can't expect him to have super drives since he is primarily German show lines and they breed for enough drive to get buy as far as courage tests and breed survey but aren't what I'd call really drivey dogs.  Also I think when the dogs are young there are ways of bringing out that drive, or not bringing it out.

 My German show line bitch is very high drive and very intense, so not all German show lines have only have "enough drive to get by". I'd probably opt for a German working line as my next dog though. I think it is easier to find an intense, high drive dog from those lines and I am friends with a breeder who has some pretty awesome working line GSDs.

 To the OP: There are some lines of GSDs that tend to have very hard temperaments as well, although I'd not consider them for myself some people love them. Belgians don't tend to have "hard" temperaments, compared to hard GSDs but many are reactive and sharp which you don't see as much with GSDs. I like dogs which are very biddable, drivey and intense but have some handler softness (which doesn't mean they are "soft", just that they want to do what you want them to do and will respond to minor corrections). I tend not to prefer dogs who are real independent and make you work hard to keep them interested. Those are my preferences, you'll have to think of what yours are. What are you looking for other than "high drive" (which can be lots of breeds)? What sports/activities are you looking to do?  What sort of temperament/personality do you want? Why does your trainer want you to get a "harder" dog? Do you really want a dog with a hard temperament?

oranges81

She is wanting me to get a "harder" dog.

What exactly was she referring to when she suggested a "harder" dog.  To me that means a dog that takes corrections well.  A hard tempered dog can be corrected and come back just fine.  A soft tempered dog has a rougher time with corrections and may show fear or hit the ground or go belly up.

I'm really surprised she suggested Mals. They are awesome dogs to watch, but for the greatly experienced, IMO if the plan is to do sport or protection work.

AgileGSD

 My German show line bitch is very high drive and very intense, so not all German show lines have only have "enough drive to get by".

I think this is a very good point, and will probably apply to all the breeds you look into. It will depend on the individual breeder's goals.

Can you tell us more about what you hope to do with the new dog?

Drive to me translates to intensity and desire to "do" -- that "do" could be any number of things, but to me it means chomping at the bit, ready, ready, ready and doing everything with gusto.

 What do you intend to do with the drive? That would help us give you some suggestions.