German shepherds moving away from breed standard?

You're probably seeing BYB dogs that are bred for size, not for standard, though there are oversized GSDs in every line :-)

Strauss comes from a BYB but has a good pedigree.  He's actually an inch over standard at 27" even at the withers.

Justin is within standard at 26" and Ranger is 25 3/4"

Strauss weighs 85 lbs, Justin 92, and Ranger 80 

You know, when you convert that, it's hard to believe our dogs are "only" two feet tall when standing on all fours xD  Certainly seems bigger when we look at em!

 

seems a lot of people are deviating from the standard in order to get a bigger dog. i dont understand why really except it might be an ego thing? i dont understand why people want to breed King Shepherds, or Shiloh Shepherds etc....

i mention to my husband from time to time (he is a devoted shepherd fan) that one day we'll get him his very own GSD and name it after his old one (Miki) but he's afraid i'll get one from my cousin and says "OK but i dont want one of hers! they're waaay too small!!" then of course we argue about the breed standard.... he says they're supposed be big, i say they're not, then he says Miki was big, then i say Miki was only half.. then he says "Well Miki's DAD was big and he was a Rin Tin Tin descendant" and i tell him that Rin Tin Tin was born in a bunker during one of the world wars.. he was also shell shocked and gun shy which is why he was a movie dog and not a war dog... "Grumble grumble"  

gives me a head ache lol i'm sticking with bulldogs!! 

Beejou

Are lots of breeders going for size over conformation?

There are certainly plenty of breeders who do. And it's a shame. I actually think that some people want a larger dog, thinking it will be more intimidating...

You'd think mine were small. Jaia is 25.5" and 78 lbs.  B'asia is 25" (tall) and about 68 lbs. They're perfect.

I seem to notice that about labs more than any other breed, perhaps because we see a lot of labs.

 Wolfgang is a mixed breed dog and trim at 82 - 84 pounds. It seems like whenever we happen at the vet's whether regular or emergency, there is a yellow lab that makes him seem small.

Stacita

I seem to notice that about labs more than any other breed, perhaps because we see a lot of labs....

 I was going to mention Labs, too.  LOL  Sadly, there are many breeds that are being bred larger than the standard calls for- Labs, Goldens and Rotts are the first to come to mind.  I think someone mentioned feeling it's an ego thing.  I think they're right.

I don't think that in general GSDs are moving away from the standard, but that depends on which standard is being referred to and which lines/types are being considered.  Some American show lines are huge and many BYB dogs are huge, but a lot of the west German high lines and the working lines still meet the standard of a "medium-large" dog.  My GSD is 21/22" and weighs just under 60lbs.  She has a conformation title and if she were not spayed, she would have been a "grand champion".  Yes, there are too many over sized GSDs, but it just depends on where you look.  Most people breeding those don't even know about a dog's "standard" to begin with (BYBs, puppy mills, ignorant people wanting a quick buck, oops litters...).  People breeding to improve the breed are doing so within the standards.

Stacita

I seem to notice that about labs more than any other breed, perhaps because we see a lot of labs.

 Wolfgang is a mixed breed dog and trim at 82 - 84 pounds. It seems like whenever we happen at the vet's whether regular or emergency, there is a yellow lab that makes him seem small.

I notice this with Labs too, I think because I have one. We got Apollo from a shelter, so we're not sure if he's mixed with anything but we kept saying he has to be mixed with something because he is over 100lbs and not fat or overweight. He's very tall and long. He's all black, no white or other colors. He honestly looks just like a HUGE Lab!

We have several labs that come in to board that are HUGE!  I'm sure a couple of them weigh in at 100 lbs...they are all absolute monsters, too.  Everyone who thinks all labs are the perfect family dogs should come meet THESE dogs.  And I have nothing against lab (my first dog was one, and she was an amazing dog), but some people just assume that they come trained and already a perfect pet...lol!

 Aren't they calling the oversized GSDs "King shepherds" now? 

I tend to gravitate toward Shepherds, Labs, & Goldens and mixes thereof. I'm hoping that when it comes time for another dog, I'll be able to find a nice rescue under 65 pounds. That's about the max I can lift and carry when necessary. Having been through two knee surgeries with my current dogs, that has become important to me.

Workingdoglover

 Aren't they calling the oversized GSDs "King shepherds" now? 

Yeah it's so dumb b/c they call them "king" shepherds and refer to them as the "old world" or "old style" German Shepherd. Below is a picture of Horand, one of the breed's founding dogs, a TRUE "old style" German Shepherd dog.  Ironically, he was described as "a good medium size" but "big for the period" at 24".

I wish someone would really start breeding the real "old style" GSDs.  I'd prefer them over the GSDs bred here any day!  ;)  I actually used to not like the GSDs, but that was when I only new the American GSDs.

Workingdoglover

I wish someone would really start breeding the real "old style" GSDs.  I'd prefer them over the GSDs bred here any day!  ;)  I actually used to not like the GSDs, but that was when I only new the American GSDs.

 

Some of the west German working lines are similar, or as similar as you will probably find.  There have been changes to the breed that are improvements, thus why reputable breeders are not breeding back to the original form.  My main beef with the American lines winning specialties is that to me, many of them do not at all look balanced.  I am not an expert in structure by any means, but my overall impression of them is that something is lacking and I can't quite put my finger on it.  It's like they have such small heads relative to such deep chests and stretched/long backs.  And some of them to me just look fat.  Same is true for some west German lines though.

Yes, my trainer has a nice dog (one that I would prefer for structure anyway), that looks like a normal dog...lol!  I believe she's Czech lines.  I always thought the GSDs that I saw when I was younger (which were the ones in AKC shows) were very misshapen for a dog.  It wasn't until I got interested in Schutzhund that I realized all GSDs weren't like that.  And speaking of heads...my trainer just got two new pups (her last dog from that breeder had had some kind of hip injury, they think as a pup, so she didn't want to compete her because it would be too painful...so the breeder ended up giving her two new pups!), but the males head is absolutely HUGE!  Its not disproportionate, but its the biggest pup at that age I've ever seen, and his head is just blocky.  Everyone thinks he's a Chow mix pup...lol!  Now he's going to be an amazing dog, although probably larger than standard.  She more looks for performance than conformation though (which do kind of go hand in hand, I suppose).  She's breeding her sable bitch this month to an excellent bicolor stud and I'm very tempted to get one of the puppies...the bitch is so close to what I would think would be an ideal GSD for me, and I think the pups would have the potential to go to national levels in SchH.  And I never thought I'd have a shepherd...  ;)  But anyway, this is going way off topic...

I believe the Czech lines in general go back to DDR lines, and DDR lines are known for having the big, substantial heads.  I LOVE them.  It makes the dog look large and blocky without actually being over-sized.