Breding

ORIGINAL: Liesje

"They don't really significantly improve the breed only their personal preferences."  Sounds like you've met and have relationships with a lot of good breeder, huh? [8|]

"Their aren't enough of their dogs."  um, jigga-wha!?!?!?!??!  You're going to have to elaborate on that one!!

You've already stated in other threads that b/c some breeders are bad/unethical, then you assume they are all bad/unethical.  So then is it fair for me to assume that b/c some rescues are nothing more than animal hoarders who neglect their pets worst than a lot of people being prosecuted for animal cruelty, that ALL rescuers should be considered bad b/c of the sins of a few?  Makes so much sense, huh....

 
Out of the 65 million dogs that are in US homes how many and what percentage belong to that segment of breeders?
With regards to improving the breed, please reference this thread paying attention to the answer given to Probe1957 question.
[linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=420994&mpage=3&key=responsible%2Cbreeders]http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=420994&mpage=3&key=responsible%2Cbreeders[/link]
 
With regards to the comment on "bad/unethical", I consider myself part of the group called as it was termed "ALL rescuers" and as part of that group I have responsibility for both the good and bad within.  I don't publicly criticize or try and set my self apart as being better.  I seize every opportunity to improve the group as a whole.  That makes sense to me.

Out of the 65 million dogs that are in US homes how many and what percentage belong to that segment of breeders?

Let me get this straight, you are advocating for breeders to breed MORE dogs?

One question - Why are we feeding the troll? [&:]

Liesje
"Their aren't enough of their dogs."  um, jigga-wha!?!?!?!??!  You're going to have to elaborate on that one!!

DPU
Out of the 65 million dogs that are in US homes how many and what percentage belong to that segment of breeders?

Can the question be answered?  I will rephrase, if the 65 million dogs that are in US households represents, in economics terms, Demand, what portion of that demand is filled by the "responsible breeder”. 

I'm sooo confused.... [8D]

ORIGINAL: Liesje

I'm sooo confused.... [8D]

 
I know that and that is why it is next to impossible to build a bridge between all segments (or responsible types of) breeders.....to create one responsible group of breeders that will in turn have some impact on the number of dogs put in shelters.

one responsible group of breeders that will in turn have some impact on the number of dogs put in shelters.

But this is why I'm confused.  First, you say they are responsible for too many dogs in shelters, but then you say they don't breed enough dogs b/c they don't make up a large enough segment of people's pets (and I'm still not clear where you are getting the numbers from), and now you're back to saying they breed too many dogs....Regardless of whether I agree or disagree, I'm at a total loss as to the point you are trying to make to the OP.

A responsible breeder's dog will NEVER end up in a shelter (at least not to their knowledge).  If that happens, then they are not a responsible breeder.  Responsible breeders (and pet owners, and rescuers, and responsible people in general...) offer their pets homes for life.  It has nothing to do with being a breeder or not, it's whether or not you are a responsible person.

Have DJ and Pooter considered adoption? 

the shelters now are doing the jobs of most breeders (excluding the good breeds, to be sure) if all breeders held to the standard of a rescue group when selecting homes then would that make a significant enough decrease in pets being dumbed in shelters?

and what about the buyers/owners of these dogs? shouldnt they be holding up to a certain standard of care as well?
we might not agree with the way the average ignoramus keeps his dog (chained up, metal barrel for a dog house, rusty pot for food, five gallon bucket for water) but is that dog any better THERE or in the pound? the quality of care is the same in my opinion. you still have the dog in a stressful situation. he is still receiving the bare minimum of care, he is still being neglected by humans except for daily feedings and he still isnt being trained to be a better companion.
if he is lucky then he'll find a home ... but who is to say he wont end up back on a chain in the same situation as before? if he is REALLY lucky he'll find and owner willing to dedicate hours upon hours of time for training and socialization... but how often does THAT happen?

granted, its possible that the majority of people are NOT suitable dog owners(by the standards of most people here).... but they outnumber the ones that are, these unsuitable owners love their dogs, they feed them, give them water, and pat them on the head.. and thats about it.....these are the people going to the shelter to adopt cute puppies, or going to the free to good home adds, or spending $200 for a pure bred puppy with no strings attached because THEY JUST WANT A DOG. they already know they cant meet the expectations of most rescues and breeders. so why should they bother with them?

Can the question be answered? I will rephrase, if the 65 million dogs that are in US households represents, in economics terms, Demand, what portion of that demand is filled by the "responsible breeder”.

 
Not much at all....we've seen in all of our areas the amount of back yard and irresponsible breeders that are breeding as well as the many that come here looking for answers to help them when they are knee deep in placenta who really don't know anything about breeding or the problems that can happen.
 

ORIGINAL: Liesje
First, you say they are responsible for too many dogs in shelters, but then you say they don't breed enough dogs b/c they don't make up a large enough segment of people's pets (and I'm still not clear where you are getting the numbers from), and now you're back to saying they breed too many dogs....

These are not my statement but statement that you attributed to me.  I don't see why it is so hard to envision one group of breeders all in conformity with standards, testing, procedures, and protocals.   I don't see why it is so hard to envision one group of breeders being the source for placement of puppies.  I don't see why those that align themselves with "responsible" breeding practices and adhere to the list of what defines "responsibility" can't see that the current model falls far short in supplying the demand for puppies.   
 
Added::  Are there compromises that can be made to get us to a better place.

I don't see why it is so hard to envision one group of breeders all in conformity with standards, testing, procedures, and protocals.

Because one group does not exist, nor does any body to govern it.

I don't see why those that align themselves with "responsible" breeding practices and adhere to the list of what defines "responsibility" can't see that the current model falls far short in supplying the demand for puppies.

Because a lot of the "demand" for puppies shouldn't exist in the first place.  I've seen enough puppies come into the shelter to know that a LOT of people who get puppies had no business getting one in the first place.  Someone who impulsively buys a puppy out of a pet store window b/c it's cute and then dumps it at our shelter the next week b/c they didn't realize puppies need potty training do not in my opinion constitute real "demand" for a healthy dog with a stable temperament.

Are there compromises that can be made to get us to a better place.

Not when you insist on lumping every person into a single group and then evaluating everyone based on the worst actions.  I won't make assumptions, but your posts seem to indicate you have very little experience working with or being mentored by a responsible breeder.  Corrent me if I'm wrong.  I'm all for compromises and middle ground, but when someone continues to spread lies about a group of people containing some close persona friends and that person doesn't even understand where they are coming from, yeah that gets my hackles raised.  Some of your posts have been very offensive to me on a very personal level.  I've already reached a compromise personally, having done rescue fostering, volunteering at an animal shelter, and developed a very close relationship with someone I consider a responsible, ethical breeder.  I understand what's at stake and I've been on both sides of the issue.

ORIGINAL: Liesje

Not when you insist on lumping every person into a single group and then evaluating everyone based on the worst actions.

 
Again, not my statement but yours attributed to me.  As one group, there is shared responsibility for the good and the bad.  Your view is based on what exist now and there is no compromise or any willingness to change for the betterment of the dog.  That is sad.
 
Maybe not in the best condition and by not the most knowledgeable, but there were 65 millions dogs that were birthed successfully and placed in US homes.  No one can provide statistics that the majority of these dogs are not living happy lives other than maybe 5% to 10% end up in shelters.   Can the "responsible" breeder ever hope to support the demand?

ORIGINAL: DPU
  Can the "responsible" breeder ever hope to support the demand?

should a responsible breeder even WANT to support the demand? that means they are doing it for a profit, either to make themselves feel like champs, or so they can make some money.... which is not being very responcible.. is it?

ORIGINAL: DumDog

should a responsible breeder even WANT to support the demand? that means they are doing it for a profit, either to make themselves feel like champs, or so they can make some money.... which is not being very responcible.. is it?

 
Doesn't mean that at all.  The deed is supplying good quality puppies to the public that wants puppies.  This is what the "responsible" breeder espouses, that all other breeders type follow their guidelines.  And since "responsible breeding" spends more money versus taken in, the model is not a good one in order to supply demand.  But I don't care if they make a profit or not.