Dog Community

Looking for something larger... (Aussies or Border Collies?)

Posted : 8/13/2007 11:33:27 AM

In the future (year or two at least), I want a larger breed. I toyed around with sighthounds for a while as I think they're amazing animals, but decided the personality just wasn't the best match for me. It's been a while since I've had a larger breed, so I wanted something more like what I am used to. I love Beau's personality. He's jsut the greatest dog I've ever had. If only he came in a larger size. College is quickly coming to a close and after I get settled, I want to get a dog as my personaly dog will be styaing with my parents. (She's old, attached to the other dogs and very set in her ways) It's been a hard choice to leave Nikki with the rest of the family, but I really think it's best for her. All the other dogs are 'family dogs'.

Anyways, suggestions? (Sorry, this will be long)

I'm looking for something bigger than a papillon, preferably medium to large, but I'm open to other suggestions.

I've had quite a few dogs growing up- most of them have been herding breeds. I love the intelligence and trainability that the herders have. Most breeds I've been around are "higher energy". I prefer an outgoing dog that likes to do things. I like to go for walks, and go to the park, etc. I'm interested in either getting more involved with obedience, or doing some form of sport with the dog- depending on the breed so an active dog is a must. I like the 'easy to train' breeds- a dog that learns quickly and likes to please.

I like breeds that are very devoted to their owners. I also enjoy the sense of humor that the papillons have.

I am really uncomfortable dealing with dog aggression and I don't plan on having a single dog very long. I really enjoy having multiples. Friendliness towards other dogs is a very important thing for me. I don't have cats, but I have a chinchilla, who I will hopefully still have in a couple years. The chinchilla though is never out of the cage unsupervised and I don't have any problems separating her with my other dogs so she's really not an issue. she has her own room.

I'd like a watchdog type of breed, not a protection breed. Something that gives a warning bark at home. Both the shelties and the papillons are good at this.

The dog needs to be good around people, including kids. But all the kids the dog would be around (and they'd be two years older at least by then) are responsible and know how to behave around dogs. The youngest one is nine now.

As far as grooming goes... I like the look of longhaired dogs best, but am open to shorthaired dogs. I'm not interested in something that has to be trimmed a lot or taken to a professional groomer often. (how hard is that for those with breeds needing professional grooming?) Other than that, though, I don't mind shedding (obviously). I don't mind having to groom frequently to maintain long hair. Nothing can shed worse than the shelties. I really like the look of most dog breeds.

I want a mutt eventually, but I really think the first larger dog I get will be a purebred. Probably from a breeder, maybe a rescue. I don't know yet. I have some ideas to research, but just am curious as to what other dog people would think. I tried some of those breed selectors and came up with some interesting results....

I will most likely have a papillon or two eventually as I want to stay involved in conformation with that breed, so it'd help if they'd be okay around smaller breeds too. I just want something bigger as well. I hope that makes sense. I haven't had a larger breed since my GSD X passed away.

Some people have suggested Aussies or Border Collies, what do you think?

Jewlieee

Posted : 8/13/2007 12:05:56 PM

Sounds like an aussie would be perfect for you. You do need to socialize them quite a bit though right out of the gate as they can be reserved and sometimes shy with strangers.If socialized well they can be a dream to have around. My aussie hasn't met an adult, child or other dog he doesn't like.

They do have guardian instincts as well.

Erica

Posted : 8/13/2007 12:10:59 PM

Wow! You sound like a perfect person for a bearded collie. Have you ever considered them?

My beardie was the kind of guy who thought everyone he came across was there to play with him. He was very outgoing - to dogs and people, loved kids, was extremely intelligent, active but in no way hyper, and funny.

When I was taking him through obedience, we could be out with him playing in his favorite field, off-leash, and all I had to do was say, "Sam, work" and he'd come flying and throw himself into the heel position, looking at me as if he was asking 'Ok, what do you want me to do now?' He absolutely loved it!

I took him to herding instinct trials several times and that was the most fun I've ever had with a dog. He wasn't as good as the border collies, but definitely more exciting to watch. He learned, after being shown once, how to get the group of sheep out of a corner - I was amazed!

They've also got as much coat as anyone could want in a dog! In full show coat, his chest hair was touching the ground.

Why not look around, see if you can meet a beardie, it might be just what you're looking for!

buster the show dog

Posted : 8/13/2007 12:38:07 PM

I was going to suggest a beardie too, if you don't mind doing quite a bit of brushing to keep that long flowing coat from tangling. Beardies will definitely make you laugh, and they are generally nicely energetic without being obsessive about it. They have a reputation for being a bit hard headed, but I think a good trainer who shows the dog what's in it for them can have a lot of fun with a beardie. Most beardies a good with kids provided they (both the dog and the kids) are properly socialized and typical beardies are very outgoing. They seem to know that they look adorable, and do their best to live up to their looks.

I would also suggest a rough/smooth collie, depending on how active you want your dog to be. Of course all this is generalization, with lots of exceptions, but overall I would say that the trade off between a r/s collie vs an aussie or border collie is that the r/s collie will tend to be less energetic than the aussies and border collies, but more reliable around children and other animals - less likely to be snappy and good watch dogs but less likely to actually bite unless really provoked. Decently socialized collies are generally not very prone to dog aggression, and they are generally very outgoing. The downside is that they often aren't the type of dog that likes to work just for the sake of working. They can be very willing to do obedience or agility, and some are very good herders, but they don't do well with a lot of repetitive drilling of exercises just for the sake of perfecting a straight sit or a bomb-proof weave pole entry. I know many collies that do very well in advanced obedience, agility, herding and tracking. But if living in the world of the absolute most elite competition dogs is important to you your odds would be better with a border collie or an aussie. Border collies and aussies are often obsessive perfectionists and will quite happily practice the same thing over and over and over and over because they consider anything other than working to be wasting time. But neither border collies nor aussies will tolerate fools, and although they are not prone to outright attacks, they are frequently willing to use their teeth to make a point about what they consider to be stupid or rude behavior.

Oh, and coincidentally Houston Collie Rescue has about 50 collies that were recently rescued from what appears to have been a decent breeder at one time who slipped into the sad and disturbing realm of animal collector. Just a thought.

TexasDaisy

Posted : 8/13/2007 12:54:03 PM

ORIGINAL: buster the show dog

Of course all this is generalization, with lots of exceptions, but overall I would say that the trade off between a r/s collie vs an aussie or border collie is that the r/s collie will tend to be less energetic than the aussies and border collies, but more reliable around children and other animals - less likely to be snappy and good watch dogs but less likely to actually bite unless really provoked.

Border collies and aussies are often obsessive perfectionists and will quite happily practice the same thing over and over and over and over because they consider anything other than working to be wasting time. But neither border collies nor aussies will tolerate fools, and although they are not prone to outright attacks, they are frequently willing to use their teeth to make a point about what they consider to be stupid or rude behavior.

My first thought was a collie, also. We had one growing up--great with us kids, never met a stranger, very smart, affectionate.

However, I disagree with the above statements on Aussies. 1st of all, I wouldn't say that aussies are UN-reliable around kids or other animals. They're actually used to herd ducks, rabbits, and other small "prey-type" animals on farms much the same as you might use them to herd other livestock. My aussie will take all kinds of rough handling from children & other smaller puppies & never so much as growl. He's pretty sturdy & easy going. As with most dogs, training goes a long way. Also, few aussies I've ever met will just keep doing the same thing repeatedly for the sake of doing it. They are intelligent, get bored easily, & need motivating much as a collie would.

That being said, I wouldn't recommend an aussie if you're looking for an outgoing dog. While they can be socialized to not fear strangers, they won't all love strangers. Mine will tolerate other non-friends/family, but isn't at all interested in them. They make good watchdogs, but may be just as much bite as bark if the occassion arises. If that would be bothersome to your situation, you might focus more on a collie instead.

Katy Harvey

Posted : 8/13/2007 1:07:20 PM

I would agree about the outgoing part (not) in Aussies & other herders. My Border Collie mix loves everybody, but he's mixed with something else.

My Aussie who we think is all Aussie or Aussie/BC mix is EXTREMELY shy around strange adults. We did socialize her all we could but at about 6 months of age her true personality came out. She barks at strangers/strange things and runs and hides in her crate when they come over. However, she does love children and will go right up to them whimpering and wiggling all over in excitement. Does the same with the cats, loves them.

I also used to own a Sheltie who wasn't extremely shy but was reserved around strangers. He really just ignored them unless they came over to him to say hi.

Laurelin_429

Posted : 8/13/2007 1:13:28 PM

[blockquote]
[blockquote]A Beardie had been suggested before, and I will definitely look into that as an option. They're gorgeous dogs.

As for a collie- I love smooth collies and my dream dog as a kid was a rough collie. However, I am familiar with shelties- I've owned three in my life- one show/performance bred, one from a farm, and one from a back yard breeder. Though I love the shelties a lot, they are a bit too laid back for the kind of dog I want next. I always hear that collies are even more laid back than shelties are.

What I meant as far as good around people is that the dog doesn't neccessarily have to love everyone, just tolerate being out and around other people well. I have one sheltie that is extremely wary around other people. I'd like a dog a bit better than that, but they don't need to be jumping all over everyone. Trey is so shy around people other than us that's it's hard to do things with him at times. He hates strangers and won't even look at them.

I really think Beau has the best personality of any dog I've ever been around. The other papillons are equally as good, but a little more laid back. If only papillons came in a larger size. LOL. What I want is basically everything he is, only a bit larger... Quite a bit larger. He's very... high strung by most standards. Some of my friends call him hyperactive. He's one of those dogs that will constantly plop a tennis ball in your lap and race off to fetch it each time as enthusiastically as the first. (Right now he's jumping and trying to get me to play with him) He's very wiggly and loves to be with people. He's a very dedicated dog to his owners, but he loves everybody. Everybody comes to see him, in his mind. He's a great dog to me because he loves to interact with you so much. He's just not happy unless he gets to play and be with you doing things, which is what I like in a dog. He's also very smart, Though I think Rose is smarter- don't tell. (Or maybe it's just the fact that she takes the TIME to think before she does something whereas he operates do first, think later). He also picks up commands easily. He's not *constantly* going, but he is a more active dog than most. He does occasionally appreciate rest and petting. Occasionally. The best thing about him, though is that he is so keen about his people. What I mean is he always seems to follow what's going on and always seems to know how you're feeling. He's really good at making people laugh when they need it.
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2shelties

Posted : 8/13/2007 2:30:14 PM

I think we have almost identical wants/needs in dog breeds. Breeds I am considering for the future are Aussies or golden retrievers. People on dog forums have pretty much scared me off from Border Collies, but I think if you are planning to do agility or flyball a bc would be ok too.

mrv

Posted : 8/13/2007 2:54:30 PM

You may find what you are looking for in belgians.

RidgebackGermansShep

Posted : 8/13/2007 3:20:12 PM

honestly, when i read it i thought: doberman! You sound like you like the same thing i like in dogs. Except i prefer short hair...

dobes are usually very athletic and energetic, very loyal, wickedly smart, and very friendly with dogs and other people.

Pwca

Posted : 8/13/2007 4:55:50 PM

You might take a look at Samoyeds, actually, as well as Keeshonden and some of the medium-sized spitz breeds. A lot of the personality traits you describe would also apply to American Eskimo Dogs, Japanese Spitz, and German Spitz Gross (the last two, unfrotunately, are super-rare in the US. I'm looking at adding a German Spitz (mittel, the medium size) to my family and one of the things that has attracted me to the breed is that they have similar personalities to papillons in a slightly larger size. While they're not traditionally 'herding dogs' they're still very trainable, and a lot of them (German Spitz and Sammies, particularly) did do herding work originally; the smaller GS were all-around farm dogs, among other things. Eurasiers might also suit, although they're not that high energy.

Lastly, I do tihnk you should look more at collies. Energy level varies a LOT- my Wings (rough) was a very energtic dog, moreso than Malcolm is. I know roughs who are pretty much WIRED- but they seem to have a better ability to settle when you need them to than your average aussie or perforamnce-bred BC.

TexasDaisy

Posted : 8/13/2007 5:50:37 PM

ORIGINAL: 2shelties

I think we have almost identical wants/needs in dog breeds. Breeds I am considering for the future are Aussies or golden retrievers. People on dog forums have pretty much scared me off from Border Collies, but I think if you are planning to do agility or flyball a bc would be ok too.

Aussies & BC's are a lot alike except that BC's seem to take to strangers more easily. If you don't think you can handle a BC, an aussie probably isn't a good choice either. We've been keeping my aunt's BC for about a month now while she's rehabing from a major accident. Her BC's drive & energy/activity level are pretty close to my aussie's. (Bandit can actually out run/play the BC, but that may just be because he's a couple years younger than her.) The main difference we've noticed between the two is that my aussie doesn't like strangers in the house even looking at "his yard" while he's back there playing, while the BC goes wild from joy at the site of anyone. A golden retriever might be a better option as their activity level is usually somewhat lower & socialization may not have to be done so intensively to prevent unwanted fear/aggression since goldens tend to be more stranger-friendly.

Laurelin_429

Posted : 8/13/2007 8:19:35 PM

I've never really considered spitzes at all. I've had some bad run in with Eskies, though which has made me a bit leary of them. I'm sure they're great dogs in the right hands though. I'll have to look at those breeds some more.

I know what you mean, people do make me wary of bcs and aussies but I do believe I have a lot of time to spend with a dog. Like I said, I've got a while to decide, so right now I'm just open to everything.

Belgians and dobes are both gorgeous breeds but I've never really considered them.

As for breeds I've lived with before I've had a lab, a GSD/Golden (most likely, definitely half GSD), three shelties, and three papillons. They've all been fantastic dogs.

And I've heard the opposite from other Aussie/BC people that Aussies tend to be less wary with strangers? I mean, I am no stranger to how wary a herding dog can be towards strangers- Trey is quite the epitome of that trait.

powderhound

Posted : 8/13/2007 8:47:32 PM

My first thought was Beardie. Second thought is Tibetan Terrier. Having worked with both I find them rather similar, they're a hoot! And you can keep them in a long puppy cut if you don't want them totally short or unmanageably long, they're really cute in the long puppy cut. TTs can be a little barkey, Beardies too, but when I dealt with them it was in a kennel/handler's situation and they weren't really being trained to be quiet. Both breeds are rather healthy on the whole, so I would consider that a benefit.

agilebasenji

Posted : 8/13/2007 10:38:51 PM

Belgians and dobes are both gorgeous breeds but I've never really considered them.

The nice thing about the Belgians is you have several coat options. [

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