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Which breed fits this scenerio?

Posted : 3/30/2007 11:03:15 AM

I'm not a first time dog owner, and I have a passion for GSD's (I currently foster them and really enjoy the challenges and reward of working with and then watching a dog overcome behavior and training hurdles); however, I have 2 Shih Tzus and 2 indoor/declawed cats [&:] AND I want to play in the agility ring [

]and maybe do some rally (eventually) at our kennel club. My rescue is retiring, and I am really going to miss having a larger dog to train, play frisbee, etc. GSD's are great in the ring, but not always a safe choice to live with small dogs.

So does that make me a Golden Retriever candidate? Or are there other breeds I can consider that may fit my lifestyle? I was also looking at the Springers and of course the beautiful and mysterious Border Collie - but I'm not so sure about a BC due to the chase/herding instinct. I'm concenred about bringing in a dog that will think my tzus are snacks [&:] I know that is ALWAYS a concern or possiblity to a degree, but I think there are probably some breeds that are more prone than others to "accidentally" injure or kill small dogs? I crate my dogs when I'm not at home, so mostly I'm speaking of having a dog that I can allow the 3 of them to go outside at the same time off leash, etc. I've been doing the "separation" thing for a long time for my dogs' safety, and I just don't think it's fair to any of them to live that way on a permanent basis, because none of them get as much quality time or outside time as they should. IMHO[8|]

Please correct me if this is not true, but I "think" I'd have better luck with a puppy from a *reputable* breeder so that I can introduce him/her to what's expected with the smaller dogs/cats at an early age before bad habits have formed.??

I spend a good amount of my time (actually just about all of my spare time) with my dogs; I am prepared to socialize and train early and often.

Any input about the breed selection/choices or about the situation in general are very welcome. Nothing is definite; I have just started considering this when I found out my foster is likely on his way out and now I find out that he's my last foster[

] - at least for a while. If I go the breeder route, I understand now is the time to find one if I want a puppy by next fall. And further more, I haven't even chosen a breed - much less a breeder![sm=uhoh.gif]

Please help me make the right choices [8|]

Xerxes

Posted : 3/30/2007 12:36:42 PM

What about a Sheltie? I've heard they do well in the agility ring. They're a fun dog, though a bored sheltie can be quite a barker.

I'm not that knowledgeable about the Springers, but I know that they can be very high energy.

jenhuedepohl

Posted : 3/30/2007 1:04:50 PM

Sheltie is a great idea! My co-worker has a Terv & Mal but started in obedience & agility with her shelties.

I wouldn't discount an adult dog from rescue right off the bat, though. Most dogs are GREAT at adjusting their play styles to suit smaller or larger dogs. My sister's 10 pound rat terror will play with her 150 pound Danes and my 50 pound Lucy played with my brother's 10 pound Brittany puppy for three straight hours this Christmas without a problem.

Laurelin_429

Posted : 3/30/2007 1:11:57 PM

Shelties are nice, just some things to think about. They're a lot smaller than a GSD or a Golden, which is the size she was thinking about. They shed like no other and they can bark. Great at agility and obedience though. And they're very very good pets. My two are great with small animals. My female's best friend is our Chinchilla.

Goldens might be a good choice as well. I dunno, I'm not very good at thinking. I hope it all works out well for you!

Xeph

Posted : 3/30/2007 1:30:54 PM

If you really do miss having a GSD...GET ONE! Shepherds are like any other breed. You teach them to play nicely with small pets at a young age, and they will play nicely at an older age.

Strauss plays very VERY nicely with a 6 lb....Papillon! His name's Ozzy xD I have to supervise, but that should be done with ANY set of playing dogs. I watch a bit more closely, because the way Ozzy and Strauss play is Strauss will lay down, and then Ozzy will run around like a mad man, and stay JUST out of reach. Strauss will reach out a paw and go "fwap!" (Not rough like you'd think). His paw will barely brush Ozzy, and Ozzy will go "Yipe yipe yipe!" and then come back and do another play bow! It's hilarious xD

I keep Strauss on lead for playing with Ozzy, simply because when Ozzy runs around, Strauss'

rey drive kicks in, so I'll end things before it gets too rough (which really isn't too often). Just picture a 6 lb Pap crawling all over an 87 lb GSD....you laughed didn't you xD? I'll have to get a picture this weekend

While an Adult dog can obviously be trained to "play nicely" with other small pets, I find it's easiest to start with them young. It's just preference :-)

Certainly no reason to discount an older animal.

From a young age, Strauss learned that we lay down for: Small children, small dogs, and puppies

He did it on his own quite often, from watching Candy's Doberman, Gunner (Who did as such instinctively, Candy never trained Gunner to lie down to play with pups and the like...he just did). Strauss will automatically lay down for pups and other small animals now to play with them ^_^ While he's very "Rough and tumble" and a bit bullyish with dogs his own size, he's very cordial with dogs smaller than him, and will happily play by their rules. ^_^

tzumommy

Posted : 3/30/2007 1:56:34 PM

I hadn't considered a Sheltie....although I was hoping for a little more "girth" this time around! I already have my "portable pups", and was hoping to find a larger companion that would still be a harmonious addition to the pack.

It doesn't have to be as large as a GSD though; I was looking at the Springers and had even considered a Brittany, but we had a Brittany several years ago (the dog of my husband's life), and I'm afraid we would always be "comparing" .

Xeph: Is that Strauss in your signature? He's GORGEOUS!
I probably could teach a well-bred GSD puppy to "play nice" with my Shih Tzus, but OTOH, I don't know if even a GSD pup might be too much for my timid personality Tzus to deal with. It wouldn't be long before the puppy outweighed them (the smallest is approx 12 lb and the largest Tzu is only 16 lbs!) My Tzus are still young and frequently get the "zoomies" in the house, which tends to ask you mentioned, kick in a Shepherds prey drive. I don't know how much of that natural prey drive you can really manage reliably [&:]

Oh, I'm just so not sure what I want yet [

]

Katy Harvey

Posted : 3/30/2007 2:54:36 PM

Realizing you are leaning toward a bigger dog, I too was going to recommend a Sheltie before I even saw everyone else's posts! They would get along with your Shih Tzu's famously, I would guess. And good at agility for sure!

rolenta

Posted : 3/30/2007 3:12:05 PM

My first thought was sheltie as well. However if you have your heart set on a big dog, then I'd say sporting dogs are good candidates because they are bred to have "soft mouths".

If I were in your situation, though, I would get a border collie.

tzumommy

Posted : 3/30/2007 3:18:08 PM

Realizing you are leaning toward a bigger dog, I too was going to recommend a Sheltie before I even saw everyone else's posts! They would get along with your Shih Tzu's famously, I would guess. And good at agility for sure!

[8|] Well, it's certainly beginning to look like the majority is recommending the Sheltie [8|]

I've never met a Sheltie; maybe that's *part* of the hesitation to embrace the idea; the other part is that one lives a couple of acres behind my house, and when the windows are open I hear that dog barking more often than not. The standard reads 14-27 lbs, which is not much bigger than my 16 lb Tzu. While that's a good thing for playing together in the yard, it's definitely not what I have in mind for my future competition partner. I've also found that it is physically taxing to train with a dog that small - lots of bending, stooping, and always being afraid I might step on him and injure him...

Please don't let that discourage you from other recommendations or input though! I'm not completely ruling out anything yet, and I really do need help with this. All DH has to say is, "whatever you want is fine with me". (he chose the Tzus when we first got the house!) Plus, I'm the caregiver/trainer for all animals in the house. He helps of course, but they're mostly my thing!

tzumommy

Posted : 3/30/2007 3:34:42 PM

If I were in your situation, though, I would get a border collie.

You would? I think they are awesome, but I've heard SO much about people that get in over their heads with BC's that I start thinking "what if I fail the dog[

] " And I worry about whether or not I could teach one not to herd/chase my Tzus. Although, I guess that is a lot to ask of any dog, much less a herding breed, when 2 white fuzzballs get the zoomies [8|]

In my [linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=302845]original post [/link] I was introducing the idea of getting another dog from a breeder vs. adopting, and Stardog85 gave me a link to [linkhttp://www.bordercollie.org]www.bordercollie.org[/link]. There's a lot of information on there about the breed personality, temperment, energy, etc. I did email the rescue contact to ask some specific questions in regards to my situation and what they know about the breed.

I'd love to hear from those that HAVE Border Collies or Goldens or Springers, etc. I'd like to hear what your experiences have been with small dog interaction, training, etc.

buster the show dog

Posted : 3/30/2007 3:42:56 PM

How 'bout a poodle - either a largish miniature or a standard? Or a flat coat retriever if you want something a little different than a golden, but still gentle with small critters? A sheltie is a great idea if their size meets your criteria. Or, for something bigger, consider a rough or smooth collie - very gentle, and fine for rally or agility as long as you don't have your heart set on a MACH. Border collies, especially the smaller ones, won't be so large that they are likely to injure your 'tzu's by stepping on them, but they can be nippy. Or Portugese water dogs are fun, good for agility and rally, and a nice in betweener size.

tzumommy

Posted : 3/30/2007 3:58:14 PM

Or a flat coat retriever if you want something a little different than a golden, but still gentle with small critters?

I never even thought of a flat coat retriever! I like the liver color... Hmmm. Thanks for the unique suggestions.

I have nothing against Goldens, but there seem to be SO MANY of them. My last obedience class had 5 Golden Retrievers and 4 Yellow Labs and 1 Black Lab of the approximately 15 or so students!

I'll look up some of your other suggestions too. [

]

TexasDaisy

Posted : 3/30/2007 5:00:01 PM

Good for you, doing your research & all! It makes me so mad when people just get another dog and expect things to work out without taking their basic breed characteristics into consideration.

My friend has a sheltie that is just about the sweetest little thing ever. Hers is an apartment dog living with another small mix & they've never had any problems. He's so loving and learns quickly.

If you're hoping for a larger dog, I would second a collie. We had one growing up. Most of the ones I've ever met have been pretty sensitive and eager to please which would help when teaching it not to pulverize your little ones. Goldens & Labs are great dogs, but can be pretty rowdy & rough until they're a year or 2 old. I've never met a BC in

erson, but from what I've heard, they're extremely high maintanance. My aussie is a needy little herder--maybe not quite as hardcore as a BC would be--and we have to keep him seperate from anyone small or frail because he plays so rough.

Anyway, just my thoughts. Good luck!

agilebasenji

Posted : 3/30/2007 5:21:31 PM

tzumommy-

did you see my reply to your other thread?

Some BC's have more drive than others. If you want one that's toned down a notch, look into show lines. Or go through rescue and look for a young adult that likes other dogs and has had socialization and maybe some training.

Laurelin_429

Posted : 3/30/2007 6:11:07 PM

Not that I'm biased towards herding breeds or collie type dogs BUT.... There's always the choice of a collie instead of a sheltie if you really want a larger breed. I myself adore smooth collies, but that's just me.

I dunno, I really think a sheltie would fit if the size wasn't an issue. They're great little agility dogs and like I've said, some of the sweetest pets you could want. Great with other animals and great with kids. We had a GSD (well, a cross) before getting our shelties too.

Active, but less active or hyper than other herders and my papillons. Super easy to train. Hardy breed- some health problems are present, just be sure to research them. Can have a very long lifespan. Very functional and athletic for such a small dog. Plus, they're a gorgeous breed with one of the most beautifully expressive faces. I think you really should try to meet a sheltie or two before you settle on your decision.

I too hear about border collies and think they're amazing sounding, but would just be too much energy to handle. I think of my papillons being a lot bigger and up even a notch drive wise and I doubt that'd be a fair situation for me or the dog.

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