i sortof have a problem with designer dogs.

By Amen I am saying that I`m done here on this topic do as you wish. Mollys here to stay (like her or not.) If I post on other topics for help in her training and you don`t want to reply because of what she is its ok by me. I keep looking for her horns and forked tail to appear. Not there yet. If God didn`t want me to have this dog I would not have it today. He knows all whats going on in my life. When Fluff died he knew. He put Molly in my path knowing she was the one that I needed.
 
By the way Susie and Fluffy are in urns so if we move they go with us. I won`t leave them behind. Sounds morbid - to bad.
 
For the last time
 
Amen

I have tried to be the voice of reason here......and I've tried to keep things from getting ugly, but I have to say, MollyMoo you seem to WANT to fight.
 
I do have to say my husband wouldn't even DREAM of telling me that I couldn't go someplace or do something, and I haven't had an income in YEARS.  And I do need one.
 
And I would be VERY surprised if you asked for help in another thread and were ignored just because Molly is a designer breed.  Honestly tho, me thinks that thou protest too much.......
 
And, FWIW, I live in a pretty isolated area too....just ran a petfinder check in my area and there were a number of puppies who will grow into small dogs within 50 miles of my home.  Since I've pretty much gotta travel that far just to go shopping, well, not a huge big deal to me.

Molly-Obviously you havent visited your shelter. I know a lady who has 14+ small breed dogs in her rescue. She pulls them from kill shelters. Sure, smaller dogs get adopted quicker but they are by no means impossible to find. She actually HAS a maltipoo in her rescue right now.
 
I know you love Molly but I hope too that you have learned something from the people here. We may go about it the wrong way but the simple fact is most of us are involved in rescue and get upset when we hear about people buying mutts & paying 2000+ for them, while there are mutts at the shelter, just as cute who are killed each day. I didnt know any better either. I got 2 of my 3 dogs from BYB's (although both were "free"). I have learned a whole lot since joining and I hope you will stick around to pick up some of the wisdom these people have to share.
 
I can tell you you do NOT want to buy from a BYB-Weston, my oldest Dal is epileptic, why? Because the dumb*** who had his parents decided to breed them despite the fact epilepsy was in their parent's history. Trust me, dealing with his seizures are not fun, neither is when he wonders around for a long time not knowing where he is or who he is, and me not being able to do anything about it. (He is on phenobarbital-which I get to shove down his throat twice a day, that isnt fun either.) My point is, I now realize had I went to a reputable breeder, I wouldnt have an epileptic dog. I understand how you feel about Molly though because I honestly believe had I not taken Weston, the person who would have got him probably would have (after realizing he was epileptic) 1) killed him or 2) dumped him at a shelter. (I come from a small town in the south where people dont respect animals) I try to use Weston as an example because it CAN happen to you if you go through a BYB, and the thing with epilepsy is you dont know they have it until they are 2. Same with hip dysplacia, heart disease, exc. You never know what you are getting from a BYB, they dont do health tests, guarentees, and arent there for you when you have questions. The simple fact is reputable breeders have higher quality dogs because they do their research. They are striving for perfection in their breed and that makes them produce higher quality animals. Whereas a BYB is just wanting to breed it's dog with this other dog and doesnt really care about history, health tests, standard, temperment, exc. Puppy mills are a whole lot worse. They dont even touch the dogs. The dogs in puppy mills live their entire lives not knowing an ounce of kindness from their owners. They are used as breeding material and that is all. They are kept in small, cramped cages and even if rescued they still sometimes cant be saved due to their temperment issues due to them not ever being handled or cared for or even petted!
 
Again I will bring up the fact we have had goldendoodles & labradoodles at our local HIGH kill shelter & had it not been for some people who pushed to find them a safe place to go they would be dead. No one was about to come to the shelter & adopt a lab mix although people are spending $2000+ for one. These were obviously only labrador & poodle mixes. I refuse to use the term pure bred because they were not but they were 100 % labradoodles. No question about that in my mind.
 
Hope you stick around and learn. I have learned a lot from I-dog and since joining I have gotten active in rescue. The people on here, although you may think harsh sometimes, really only want to educate you. I went through the same thing when I came here.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

I have tried to be the voice of reason here......and I've tried to keep things from getting ugly, but I have to say, MollyMoo you seem to WANT to fight.

I do have to say my husband wouldn't even DREAM of telling me that I couldn't go someplace or do something, and I haven't had an income in YEARS.  And I do need one.

And I would be VERY surprised if you asked for help in another thread and were ignored just because Molly is a designer breed.  Honestly tho, me thinks that thou protest too much.......

And, FWIW, I live in a pretty isolated area too....just ran a petfinder check in my area and there were a number of puppies who will grow into small dogs within 50 miles of my home.  Since I've pretty much gotta travel that far just to go shopping, well, not a huge big deal to me.

 
That's what I'm saying. Based on what I've read, it's not a matter of not being able to find a small dog from a responsible breeder or shelter, it's a matter of not wanting to go the distance for one. Huge difference.
 
I don't have a problem with "designer breeds" as long as the breeders are responsibly striving to create a new breed. It can happen as there are a few new breeds that have been recognized(Black Russian Terrier for example). Does this mean all of the "designer breeds" will become recognized breeds? Not at all. The Cockapoo has been around since the 1950's-1960's and isn't remotely close to becoming a recognized breed. The reason a lot of these "designer breeds" will never become recognized is because the people breeding them aren't interested in creating a new breed. They're interested in the money that people will pay for them. If people are willing to pay $3000 for an F1 cross from a questionable background, why on earth would the breeders strive to breed better dogs or to create a new breed? There's no incentive in it.
 
I am curious though, what drives people towards these "designer breeds"? There are over 300 recognized purebreeds out there. If you are looking for specific traits I would think it would be much easier to find those traits in a purebreed dog whose traits have been fixed for 100's of years than a "designer breed" dog whose traits are not yet fixed(or will ever be fixed depending on the breeder) . I would also think it would be much easier to find a responsible purebreed breeder than a responsible "designer breed" breeder. In the case of Mollymoo, I'm wondering why a Lhasa Apso or Poodle wouldn't have been suitable? Of course that's all moot point since she already owns a Lhasa/Poodle mix but it still piques my curiosity.

mollymoo...just admit your sin, and all will be forgiven....
say that you were ignorant at the time, but in the future, you will never do it again.
 
never mind that you did not  ay a lot for molly...
 
never mind that YOUR local shelters didn't have what you wanted....a small   "breed" puppy  (no one seems to remember those two requirements)...and maybe non-shed.
 
never mind that molly seems to be quite healthy, and is quite smart and cute.
 
never mind that shelters have many of the puppy mill dogs that were neglected in the formative weeks, and were bred with no regard for health and temperament...you should know that as soon as these dogs enter a shelter, they all become a perfect companion dog....and ALL shelter workers are knowledgeable and helpful in helping you pick out the best dogs.
 
never mind that so many people who love purebred dogs would not even dream of adopting a purebred dog from a shelter...but they want you to.
 
you, mollymoo, are a troublemaker...why do you insist on answering back when you are attacked?   just lay down and take it...don't you know that all these ladies know everything?
 
now admit you are wrong, or be quiet, or leave this forum.
 

I'm not sure why it is neccessary to continue to post in such a smart arsed manner.  I'm not sure why Mollys mom feels the need to continue to be soooo darned defensive.  I am sure that this thread has gone to hell-o in a handbasket rather quickly............

Far-Sure Molly is healthy now, what about in a couple years? I thought Weston was healthy too until he started having grand mal seizures. Not too much fun. Could happen to Molly.

Actually most rescued puppy mill dogs go to RESCUES where they work tirelessly with them. Sometimes they can adopt them out, sometimes they have to be euthanized.

Dont speak until you have visited your shelter, but it doesnt seem like you are the type. Seems like you just want to fight.

I wouldnt mind finding out where Molly lives so I can check petfinder.

Kind of funny she lives 3-4 hours from a "major city" so I guess that's why she couldnt find a shelter, yet she did find a BYB breeder.

Far-Seems like you are the instigator. Why cant you learn and listen to what other people have to say? You seem stuck in your beliefs. i wouldnt have a problem with mixed breed dogs either if the breeders were responsible and bred them for quality not $. Show us a responsible labradoodle breeder (breeds for a standard, health tests, has spay/neuter contracts, has titled dogs in agility and/or obedience, carefully screens potential adopters, researches blood lines, striving to be recognized by one of the breed registeries)  and you might change some minds.

Instead of going on about how evil we are why dont you find a good labradoodle/maltipoo/goldendoodle breeder and change our minds?

I have no doubt that Molly is cute but so are the 2000 (50/week) animals who are euthanized at MY shelter every year.

Seems like you are pretty close minded. If you love dogs you should love all dogs, which includes the unwanted shelter dogs.

NO not all dogs in shelters are perfect.  Actually NO dog I have ever met is perfect. Being a foster & volunteer I realize how many good dogs there are at high kill shelters. Take for example, the fellow in my signature, this guy would have been euthanized within a week of being available for adoption had I not decided to foster/sponsor him. I actually told the manager I wanted to pull him 2 days after he was available, I was told by the manager to be sure he was still there because he could have very well been put to sleep already. Pretty sad, huh? He is a very, very sweet guy. Gets along well with other dogs, is sort of nice around cats (still working on that, he hasnt ever been around them before & is just curious), loves humans. He is a goofball and a joy to have around. He is still learning manners (he has a tendancy to jump on people when he gets excited) but I doubt I will have any problem with him. He hasnt had a single accident in the house, and wont. I would keep him if I could, but I know how many more sweet, loving, heartbreakers like Jet there are out there looking for good homes.

Go to your local shelter and see for yourself. Any dog will have a problem, a dog bought from a puppy mill/petstore will also have problems as will a dog bought from a reputable breeder. No dog is perfect. Even if it is a small problem such as a dog not learning to sit quickly or being too outgoing or too shy, any dog will have small problems. It annoys the *bleep* out of me that there are ignorant people out there who still believe animals are in the shelter because they are "bad". It simply isnt true.

Within a short distance
 
[linkhttp://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=6875713]http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=6875713[/link] -"Multipoo" I was talking about
 
"Labradoodle": [linkhttp://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7005780]http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7005780[/link]
 
"Poodle/Lhasa mix" like YOUR dog: [linkhttp://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7149492]http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7149492[/link]
 
"Labradoodle": [linkhttp://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7155967]http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7155967[/link]
 
"Schnoodle" [linkhttp://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7166341]http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7166341[/link]
 
"Schnoodle" [linkhttp://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=6958739]http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=6958739[/link]
 
"Schnoodle": [linkhttp://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=6958738]http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=6958738[/link]
 
A whole rescue devoted to poodle mixed dogs: [linkhttp://www.poomixrescue.com/]http://www.poomixrescue.com/[/link]
There are 5 Lhaso/Poodle mixes listed on their site. There are HUNDREDS of poodle mixes listed on their site, many who are in danger.
 
This to me pretty much sums up what I think about poodle breeders
 
"These puppies are about as cute as they get!  Their mom is a golden  retriever and their dad is a standard poodle.  They came from a less 
than ideal breeding environment.  After deciding that breeding wasn't  the money spinner they had hoped, these people decided to dump the  dogs that they had.  "
 
I have heard of that happening SO many times it makes me sick.
 
Wish more people would understand how many unwated animals we already have. I dont agree with BYB pure bred dogs either. I think the only people who breed should know what they are doing & do lots of research on the lines & every health test needed.

What's your malfunction? Allow me to break some things down..
 

ORIGINAL: faramir

mollymoo...just admit your sin, and all will be forgiven....
say that you were ignorant at the time, but in the future, you will never do it again.

 
I would hope she wouldn't buy from an irresponsible breeder again. Irresponsible breeding won't end unless people stop buying from irresponsible sources.

never mind that you did not  ay a lot for molly...

 
What does price have to do with anything? Price isn't indicative of quality. If it were, pet store puppies would be totally superior to responsibly bred and BYB bred dogs.

never mind that YOUR local shelters didn't have what you wanted....a small   "breed" puppy  (no one seems to remember those two requirements)...and maybe non-shed.

 
That's the whole point. "Local". Mollymoo stated she was unwilling to put the time and drive into finding a dog. And I'm not necessarily talking from a shelter either. Of course, Mollymoo doesn't have to put the time or drive into finding a dog. That's her right but she also can't claim that she couldn't find what she was looking for. Let's be realistic. You'd be very lucky to find what you are looking for in your area. I would think the majority of people who bought dogs from responsible breeders had to travel in order to get their dog. I would also think that a lot of people who've adopted dogs also traveled a bit as well.

never mind that molly seems to be quite healthy, and is quite smart and cute.

 
I don't doubt that.

never mind that shelters have many of the puppy mill dogs that were neglected in the formative weeks, and were bred with no regard for health and temperament...you should know that as soon as these dogs enter a shelter, they all become a perfect companion dog....and ALL shelter workers are knowledgeable and helpful in helping you pick out the best dogs.

 
Nevermind the fact that quite a lot of dogs who are turned into shelters and rescues don't have any issues. In fact, these are [linkhttp://www.beaglemaryland.org/web_pages/Thinking%20About%20Giving%20Up.htm]the top 10 reasons[/link] why pets are relinquished to shelters and rescues...
 
1. Moving
2. Landlord issues
3. Cost of pet maintenance
4. No time for pet
5. Inadequate facilities
6. Too many pets in home
7. Pet illness 
8. Personal problems
9. Biting
10. No homes for littermates 
 
Notice how biting is #9. So it seems that dogs in shelters aren't there because of *their* issues, it's because of people not making a commitment to their pets.

never mind that so many people who love purebred dogs would not even dream of adopting a purebred dog from a shelter...but they want you to.

 
Where did I say that Mollymoo should've adopted a purebreed dog from a shelter? I know I didn't say such a thing. If anything, I asked what a Lhasa/Poodle mix had that a Lhasa Apso or Poodle doesn't have.
 
While I believe that shelter dogs are great, I don't believe they are for everyone. Some people are quite content with only adopting from shelters and some people are quite content with only obtaining dogs from breeders. I don't have a problem with either, as their decision does not affect me personally, but I do think they owe it to themselves and to the dogs to obtain them based on lots of research and obtain them from responsible sources.

you, mollymoo, are a troublemaker...why do you insist on answering back when you are attacked?   just lay down and take it...don't you know that all these ladies know everything?

 
I don't think Mollymoo is a troublemaker. I know I wasn't attacking her. I was just stating my thoughts on the "designer dog" issue and I did ask her a few questions that she doesn't have to answer if she doesn't choose. Then again, I shouldn't have asked since I "know it all". [8|]

now admit you are wrong, or be quiet, or leave this forum.

 
Is there really a need to be melodramatic?

Meilani...I think you and I are both just pi$$ing in the wind.....I went back to the beginning of the thread just for spits and grins and the OP just stated her dislike of designer breedERS not the breeds.  MollyMoo felt the need to jump in in defense of HER dog, and I can almost understand that.  Not terribly long ago a regular here who had a bad experience with a large breed made some blanket statements about big dogs being vicious and just waiting to attack smaller dogs.  And yep, I jumped in in defense of MY large breeds.  So, yes, I can understand someone wanting to defend the little love of their life
 
What I can't understand is getting nasty about it.  And, gosh darn, I REALLY don't get anyone's husband tell them they CAN'T do a danged thing.....MY marriage is an equal partnership.  And, if it wasn't, I wouldn't be in it.

Hmm just to butt in here but the OP is a HEEEE! Understandable though. You have never met me

what i think is missing from most of you ladies is that you don't realize how much you are attacking mollymoo...read those posts assuming that it is YOU who is being criticized...and you just don't agree with what everyone is saying.
 
you make it sound like buying from a byb, in any circumstance, is a major crime...or not traveling large distances to do it.
 
by the way, melaini, did you get your dogs from a shelter?
if not, maybe mollymoo thinks she can get a better dog from a byb than a shelter also.
 
and the point IS...she got a great dog....and maybe if she followed your advice, she would not have....don't argue so much with success.
 
many of the points made by some of you ladies are valid points...but any good point which gets exaggerated loses its truth.
 
 

My apologies Turtle...guess we need little icons to denote sex of posters!
 
Far, it was quite some way into the thread before Mollymoo posted.  Nope, I'm not going back and reread again, but I don't recall any direct personal attacks on Mollymoo.
 
Again, for the record, two of my gsds came from a responsible breeder, one was an accident, and luckily the ONLY pup in the opps litter,(ours) the other three were rescues.  No, I didn't go rescue them from a shelter.  I FOSTERED the litters they came from, so excuse me for "not practicing what I preach"....cuz I don't do a heck of a lot of preaching.
 
IF you are willing to put some time and effort into looking, you can find just about any dog in shelters or rescues.  But, you have to be willing to not get what you want the instant you want it.

ORIGINAL: faramir

what i think is missing from most of you ladies is that you don't realize how much you are attacking mollymoo...read those posts assuming that it is YOU who is being criticized...and you just don't agree with what everyone is saying.

 
Exactly where did I "attack" Mollymoo?

you make it sound like buying from a byb, in any circumstance, is a major crime...or not traveling large distances to do it.

 
Buying from a BYB is not a major crime compared to murder. I don't agree with irresponsible breeding and a BYB is an irresponsible breeder. With that said, if a person unknowingly bought from a BYB, it happens. Now if they know better and buy from a BYB, that's insanity. As far as traveling goes, I mentioned that because Mollymoo claims she could not find a small non shed breed/mix locally. Going by her definition of "locally" meaning in her immediate vicinity. As I said before, you'd be extremely lucky to find what you are looking for in your immediate vicinity. So her claim that no one had what she wanted isn't really true. It's just that she wasn't willing to go the distance for one. And that's her right. No one says she has to travel anywhere.

by the way, melaini, did you get your dogs from a shelter? if not, maybe mollymoo thinks she can get a better dog from a byb than a shelter also.

 
I didn't get my dogs from a shelter. I also didn't get them from BYB's. They were purchased from responsible breeders who breed for the health and preservation of the breeds. How does one get a "better" dog from a BYB as opposed to a shelter?

and the point IS...she got a great dog....and maybe if she followed your advice, she would not have....don't argue so much with success.

 
Who's arguing? Not me. She already has the dog. I was commenting about how I feel about "designer breeds" and I wondered why people choose to get them instead of an established purebreed dog who already has set traits.

many of the points made by some of you ladies are valid points...but any good point which gets exaggerated loses its truth.

 
What did I exaggerate on? If anything, you're the one blowing things out of proportion.

o.k., let's see if i was wrong in saying mollymoo was being attacked:
 
Romal:  If someone buys a pup from a BYB they are not saving one dog, but helping thousands die.
 
PWCA: frankly, that there 'are' no reputable breeders near you is a cop out.
 
glenmar: I do have to say my husband wouldn't even DREAM of telling me that I couldn't go someplace or do something,
 
mmthomason: Molly-Obviously you havent visited your shelter. I know a lady who has 14+ small breed dogs in her rescue. She pulls them from kill shelters. ... She actually HAS a maltipoo in her rescue right now.
(obviously didn't take note that mollymoo wanted a puppy)
 
meilani: I would think the majority of people who bought dogs from responsible breeders had to travel in order to get their dog. I would also think that a lot of people who've adopted dogs also traveled a bit as well.
--------------
now this was before mollymoo jumped in:
 
xeph:  They are only selling now because people are ignorant, selfish, uneducated, and fall for a cutesie name.
 I'm also not going to lie and pretend I'm not disgusted by people that go out and purchase one of these because "They need to fill a void."  I feel that is a crock, and is motivated by selfishness and emotion rather than common sense.  Go ahead, fill your void, but do it sensibily and don't impulse by because 'You feel empty'