Soft dogs

 I’ll be very interested in the answers too. Sadie will hide if DH grumbles at the TV too much… I moved her crate into the living room so she has her safe place… football would be much better if she didn’t hide every Patriot penalty flag…
Linda

Springer Lady

 I’ll be very interested in the answers too. Sadie will hide if DH grumbles at the TV too much… I moved her crate into the living room so she has her safe place… football would be much better if she didn’t hide every Patriot penalty flag…
Linda

That sounds SO much like Dahlia.  Not with football as we're not sports people, but every time we get angry at some political figure and shout at the TV or computer or rant about something, Dahlia slinks away and looks at us like we're yelling at her.

This is something I have struggled with for years with Kenya and was not a new problem when I got her.  She's not only soft/sensitive but is also neurotic.  I do positive training with her but even in some situations she is so affected by the environment or a certain person that she will not even accept a treat or praise.  For us the key so far has really been management, always setting her up for success.  Avoiding the things I know make her uncomfortable, and showering her with praise when I know she will be receptive to it (sometimes too much attention at the wrong time confuses her even more).  I have tried a few medications but did not see the types of results we were looking for so it's still a work in progress.  We sort of "put her away" for a few months - no new training, no trials, no major traveling (just to places she already knew).  Just being a regular companion dog and hanging out.  We are trying something totally new - tracking.  Something that is more inherent for the dog, doesn't require obedience or complience or any formal training, all she has to do is sniff the ground and eat treats!  She seems to like this a lot so we'll run with it....

I know she will never be a confident dog and will never be "clear headed".  I try to keep things as simple as possible for her.

Liesje

For us the key so far has really been management, always setting her up for success.  Avoiding the things I know make her uncomfortable, and showering her with praise when I know she will be receptive to it

Absolutely, this. Lots of EASY, upbeat training. Very short, light sessions. Bean is very soft, also, but I got her when she was young enough that I've been able to make a big change in her. Confidence building, with simple, short, happy training sessions has made her a different dog.

Confidence building is very helpful when dealing with soft dogs.  I would look into an obedience class with a trainer who uses only positive reinforcement.  Correcting a soft dog is, imo, very counter productive.   

During the times when Dahlia shuts down, I would just walk away.  Don't coddle her, don't try to distract her, just give her a few moments to pull it back together, & them move on as if nothing has happened.  Once she's back to normal, then ask for something basic like a sit, & reward her heavily when she sits.

We do our best to manage it.  We use all positive training, never yell at her, etc.  She's a fairly confident dog most of the time...very social, loves and trusts everyone.  But when it comes to any sort of anger (directed at her or otherwise), even a raised voice not raised in anger, or being run into she just shuts down.

She definitely didn't seem to be terribly receptive to petting, so I just sat quietly with her for a little while until she reached out a paw to me.

I'm ok with management and so far that's what we've been doing since we got her, but I wonder if there's some way to recondition her to accept those sorts of accidents.

BEVOLASVEGAS

Confidence building is very helpful when dealing with soft dogs.  I would look into an obedience class with a trainer who uses only positive reinforcement.  Correcting a soft dog is, imo, very counter productive.   

During the times when Dahlia shuts down, I would just walk away.  Don't coddle her, don't try to distract her, just give her a few moments to pull it back together, & them move on as if nothing has happened.  Once she's back to normal, then ask for something basic like a sit, & reward her heavily when she sits.

 

We've done several obedience classes (and even got our CGC last April)...all positive training.  I use clicker training principles but with my voice and it's always upbeat and fun.  She loves training and she does great with it.  I never use corrections...not my style and I know she wouldn't react well to it.  I keep wondering from her overreactions to something as simple as being run into if the people who had her before us used corrections with her (I know NOTHING of her background...she was picked up as a stray in April 2008).

I'll try ignoring her when she reacts that way.  Trying to get my partner to do so might be more difficult but I'll work on him. LOL  

I can avoid those sorts of uncomfortable situations more of the time but there's just no way to avoid running into her from time to time.  We all know how dogs can get underfoot! lol

Liesje

and showering her with praise when I know she will be receptive to it (sometimes too much attention at the wrong time confuses her even more).

Not only that, you might unknowingly be nurturing the soft/sensitive/neurotic behavior if she is still even a little bit in that state of mind. I agree that she needed a rest from the whole agility scene

I would do something more like this:

BEVOLASVEGAS

Don't coddle her, don't try to distract her, just give her a few moments to pull it back together, & them move on as if nothing has happened.

Praise, love, coddeling, etc. promotes the behavior the dog is in

espencer

Praise, love, coddeling, etc. promotes the behavior the dog is in

I'm never quite sure I totally agree with that, though it seems to make sense.  I have a hard time wrapping my brain around it.  I remember all the wisdom that coddling a dog during a storm will make them more fearful the next time around and Patricia McConnell's writing on how that wasn't true because fear is not a state they want to be in.  So I don't think a dog WANTS to be scared or worried or whatever else a shut down dog is feeling.  It's not a state she's enjoying so I'm not sure someone can really make a dog feel shut down by petting the dog.  It can promote a behavior, yes (like jumping up on someone), but I can't see how it can promote an emotion like that. 

crysania

I'm never quite sure I totally agree with that, though it seems to make sense.  I have a hard time wrapping my brain around it.  I remember all the wisdom that coddling a dog during a storm will make them more fearful the next time around and Patricia McConnell's writing on how that wasn't true because fear is not a state they want to be in.  So I don't think a dog WANTS to be scared or worried or whatever else a shut down dog is feeling.  It's not a state she's enjoying so I'm not sure someone can really make a dog feel shut down by petting the dog.  It can promote a behavior, yes (like jumping up on someone), but I can't see how it can promote an emotion like that. 

Totally agree, a dog does not want be scared, aggressive, anxious, etc. BUT by giving affection at the wrong behavior you are promoting the behavior to return every time the thing or situation that causes it appears again

My neighbor has a poodle that is very aggressive towards Chuck, when we walk by i can see her petting the dog and saying "it's ok", once we disappear the dog goes back to normal but the aggressive behavior comes back every time the dog sees Chuck. No, she cant make the dog aggressive by petting her without Chuck being there, but by giving affection the lady is saying "Yes, is ok for you to act this way every time this happens so keep going"

 It depends on the kind of affection you give. On the one hand, if you make a huge fuss of them every time they are scared I think they start to associate that state of being with lots of attention. Or perhaps they figure with all this noise and carry-on, they must have been right to be upset. Seems like everyone's upset about it.

However, I am a great advocate of the right kind of attention during stress. If my dog is stressed you can bet I go over and talk to him and give him a pat. It serves only to make him feel reassured, i.e. less stressed. Next time that thing that made him stressed before is around, he is not as worried by it. Now if when he was stressed I came over and lavished attention on him and made baby noises and cuddled him and so on, well, I imagine I would not be helping his stress level. All that excessive noise and attention would probably serve to convince him that he was right about being stressed in the first place.

I think you have to acknowledge that while humans mean well by coddling, it's not necessarily interpreted by the dog the way that we mean it to be interpreted. I've seen the same thing happen with babies. Something happens and they look a bit worried, but it's not until someone swoops down making baby noises and giving them a squeeze that they start crying. You can see that all that excitement was exactly what they didn't need. It would have been perfect just to matter-of-factly set them right, say a few gentle words, and leave them to it. 

  I've mostly felt that when we comfort our scaredy dog in a higher pitched, cooing type voice we convey that we are sharing their fear. They are looking at us and saying "oh, she's scared too, it really must be scary".  When our dogs are having a melt down we often become upset and worried and that comes through loud and clear to our dogs.  Either way, the advice is the same.  Don't react at all and carry on as usual.  I generally don't talk at all to a dog showing fear, other than to ask for a behavior the dog knows such as sit or heel.  I do try and get the dog moving because it does seem to help them change their state of mind.

 I have also physically manipulated the tail and ears into a confident position.  Not sure how much it actually helped, but it never seemed to make things worse.  I mostly try to keep my emotions completely neutral and ask the dog to follow my example, as espencer has said.

edited to remove an extra word, lol. 

Hi

I think that we need to be careful of using the word soft and be more specific about the behaviours that soft means.

My older girl Luci (Tch Nascere Bella Nera CDX) is a mini poodle who as a puppy seemed really bratty and outgoing. So off I went and trained her for obedience and tracking. Sure she got upset when I stood on her, and even to this day if a voice is raised in our household her bounce back isn't great. She also pretty much completely collapsed in obedience at 15 months (she had her first CD pass by then) and it took me three months to find out why with the help of a Vet Behavourist .

What had happened is that she had developed noise phobias and we needed to counter condition these. To say that this took time, patience and a lot of support and help from training friends is an understatement. After 8 months, we went back into the ring, and while hesitant at first the brat is now well and truly back.. Last week she picked up the bottle tops that were marking the scent discrimination square and started playing with them, throwing them in the air. I was very happy to see this. She is back to her fast eager bratty best. She now could not care less about the original noise sources, which were road noise and show noise.

These problems of fear will never fix themselves, in fact it may well be that unless we do something training wise, they will get worse. A humane management programme needs to totally withdraw the dog from the fear causing stimulus or find other ways of getting the dog out of the fear state. Desensitisation is one, where slowly we approach the fearful stimulus and associate it with something nice which prevents the fear state.  Distraction is a good part of this, and the method I used encouraged focus on me with C+T .Medication is another. I also found some of Brenda Alofts Sp? Methods in Get Connected really useful for getting my dog out of fearful state and into a relaxed state if the worst happened. I really recommend her work.

espencer

Liesje

and showering her with praise when I know she will be receptive to it (sometimes too much attention at the wrong time confuses her even more).

Not only that, you might unknowingly be nurturing the soft/sensitive/neurotic behavior if she is still even a little bit in that state of mind. I agree that she needed a rest from the whole agility scene

Espencer we haven't done agility in over a year and never really did it competitively so I'm not sure why you even bring that up.  I've never been that into the "agility scene".

The problem with a neurotic pr anxious dog is that unless the dog is sedated or sleeping, she is never completely relaxed mentally.  But, that's Kenya, not necessarily Dahlia....

I'm ok with management and so far that's what we've been doing since we got her, but I wonder if there's some way to recondition her to accept those sorts of accidents.

In our case, honestly all I can say is no, it's just my dog's temperament.  She's an insecure, sensitive dog.  The more I try to train or "rehabilitate" her the more frustrating it becomes for both of us.  Like Dahlia she is often upset by accidents like getting bumped into.  Her insecurity has to do with certain people and her personal space.  So, she is not at all affected by thunder, gunshots, throwing pans on the floor....things that other dogs startle at, but say if you accidentally bump her lightly and she didn't know you were there, that sort of thing would really startle her.  She is still suspicious of my DH even though he has never done anything to her and basically ignores her unless she approaches him, then he gives her a treat or rubs her ears (she looooooves having her ears rubbed, so I withhold doing it and it's the one special thing she has to get from DH).

I do think sometimes it helps her to have the other dogs around, so she can see how neutral they are to being bumped into and that sort of thing.  Also she's definitely the alpha dog here.  She's the opposite with dogs as she is with people - outgoing, playful, loves to get really physical.