T-Bone resource guarding, eek!

In my humble opinion, "trade" is fine for a dog who you haven't raised from a pup.  A pup however, should obey "leave it" and "drop it" commands.  It's not optional,and it certainly isn't a choice to try to prevent ME from taking what, in our world, is mine.  All good things in their lives come from me, or the humans in the house, and they don't get those things if they decide to be snarky with me or any of us.

Nothing in life is free......make him work for a pat on the head, his food, absolutely everything.  Ask for a sit, or something.  The point is making him earn each and every thing he wants.

With fosters, yes, I will trade, but they don't know any better.  With my own dogs, I've taught them from infancy that I'm a kind and benevolent leader, but that I am the one who makes the decisions, not them.

Remember,this is going to be a very big boy, and he needs to be trained NOW.  I can stand in the middle of a circle of 6 german shepherds and not one will move for a treat until I call his/her name, and then it is to put their butt on the floor because I don't dispense treats to a standing dog.  I can walk all six of them at the same time, all by my lonesome, down the streets of the city.  This is a combination of training and my own attitude.  I dislike the word "alpha", but I liken the way I raise my dog to the way I raised my kids.....with consistency, firmness and fairness.

glenmar

In my humble opinion, "trade" is fine for a dog who you haven't raised from a pup.  A pup however, should obey "leave it" and "drop it" commands.  It's not optional,and it certainly isn't a choice to try to prevent ME from taking what, in our world, is mine.  All good things in their lives come from me, or the humans in the house, and they don't get those things if they decide to be snarky with me or any of us.

  A puppy first needs to learn the meaning of leave it/drop it before one can expect them to obey. Resource guarding is not uncommon in puppies and often goes on while between littermates. Really resource guarding is a fairly normal canine behavior and certainly not a sign that the puppy is dominant or the owner is some how a poor leader.

  Still it is not a behavior which is acceptable to humans, so it does need to be addressed. I would start by training a solid leave it command (last behavior on the page called "Zen";): http://dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Levels/ByLevel/1Level.htm

  Resource guarding info: http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_ResourceGuarding.php

Of course a pup needs to be trained to know what those terms mean. And absolutely, resource guarding goes on between litter mates.    I'm thinking I wasn't terribly clear when I posted last night.

My well buried point was that the pup needs to be taught the leave it and drop it  far more critically than he needs to be taught "trade".  And again, trade is a nice tool to have.  I just haven't raised pups to trade,but rather to leave or drop when asked.

glenmar

Of course a pup needs to be trained to know what those terms mean. And absolutely, resource guarding goes on between litter mates.    I'm thinking I wasn't terribly clear when I posted last night.

My well buried point was that the pup needs to be taught the leave it and drop it  far more critically than he needs to be taught "trade".  And again, trade is a nice tool to have.  I just haven't raised pups to trade,but rather to leave or drop when asked.

 Maybe I'm just a bit dim, but I don't understand this bit - how DO you teach leave it/drop it/ give WITHOUT initially trading what the dog has for something better?  Unless you physically take the item, which I don't recommend.... that's just likely to teach the dog he has a REASON to guard....  "Trade" IS just another word for "drop it" - just as with any other cue, your goal is to phase out the treats, but the initial motivation for the dog to let go of what he has is that you have something better.  It's like the difference between a choke chain and a check chain.... no difference at all, just one is "softer" sounding.  At least, that is my understanding of it.

I think Agile makes some good points... resource guarding is normal, and not indicative of a "dominant dog".  It's GOOD to remember that even an "omega" dog (bottom of the pile!) CAN defend a resource if he already has it and wants to keep it badly enough.  I think a better indication of dominance is a dog's "mine!" radius.  If he only defends it when he's on top of it, it's between his paws, it's in his mouth, and only if he wants it very very badly.... that, to me, is not a "dominant" dog.  If the dog can stop others touching it even if he is several feet away - THAT is a dominant dog.

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Anyways, all that is a bit by the by.  I just want to say I don't think you need to be overly concerned.  No, it's not acceptable, but YES it is normal and yes it is easy to resolve.  Here is what I suggest:

Number one - and you know this already! - stop chasing him and taking items off him   Put stuff out of his reach where possible, and for the rest, supervise supervise supervise, and confine when supervision is not possible.  Try to stop him getting hold of things he shouldn't have in the first place.  When that fails, act PLEASED with him, and charm the item out of his mouth.  It's much EASIER to get stuff off them if they BRING it to you and SHOW you (looking very proud of themselves).

Two - Play "trade" games with LOW value items, and work up.  He should never be uncomfortable during the exercise, at least initially, otherwise the process might even backfire.  The protocol is to teach the dog to GIVE you stuff WITHOUT confrontation - keep that in the front of your mind

Three - handfeed him his meals for a few days, if you aren't already.  Handfeed him chews as well.  This way he can be just as comfortable with you handling chews, as he is with you putting your hand in his dish.  It serves a dual purpose too, because if you always have chews ON you, you can redirect him if he gets mouthy, and just hold on to one end and do gentle, happy talk. 

Four - I've seen resource guarding spread to other items, including the food bowl, so I think it would be a good idea to take preventative measures.  My reasoning is also, if the guarding can spread TO the food bowl, then the positive effects countering the guarding WITH the food bowl can also spread.  Stick 4-5 food bowls on the floor and have his meal in a pot in your hand.  Put a LITTLE bit in the first bowl, wait for him to eat, move to Bowl 2, repeat.  After several reps he will anticipate and run ahead to the next bowl and wait there, perfectly happy and relaxed, while you approach.  You can then reward him by.... putting some food in his bowl, and carrying on with the game. 

Five - Does this pupper have a crate?  I give ours high value items in their crate.  They KNOW that the crate is THEIR space, their den, safe haven.... They know they have no reason to guard it from anyone.  I think giving dogs this kind of space to eat or have high value chews, reduces the chance they will guard it.

I'm sorry.  I don't agree with using trade with a young pup.  As I have said, I certainly will use it with a dog that I haven't raised but I've never used trade with a pup.  A bit of "EH EH" followed by leave it, goes a long way towards that pup understanding the leave it.  And drop it can be achieved by simply holding a hand under the offending mouth.  "Give it to me, drop it" has always worked just fine for me.

I don't chase my dogs around grabbing things out of their mouth.  Never have, never will.  Nor will I ever train a pup to leave it or drop it by teaching trade first.  I see that as setting myself up to always have to give something to get what I want rather than the dog obeying simply because the dog wants to please me more than s/he wants to chew up my shoe.

I appreciate the responses, everyone. Today I did the same thing and he wasn't remotely guardy of his identical treats. I did it several times. Gave it to him, pet his face, kissed him, traded, took it from him for a minute, etc. He was fine with all of this. He hadn't had his dinner before we went to the neighbor's, maybe he was just especially hungry? I will continue to work with him just in case and follow the list Chuffy made.

glenmar

I'm sorry.  I don't agree with using trade with a young pup.  As I have said, I certainly will use it with a dog that I haven't raised but I've never used trade with a pup.  A bit of "EH EH" followed by leave it, goes a long way towards that pup understanding the leave it.  And drop it can be achieved by simply holding a hand under the offending mouth.  "Give it to me, drop it" has always worked just fine for me.

I don't chase my dogs around grabbing things out of their mouth.  Never have, never will.  Nor will I ever train a pup to leave it or drop it by teaching trade first.  I see that as setting myself up to always have to give something to get what I want rather than the dog obeying simply because the dog wants to please me more than s/he wants to chew up my shoe.

No more than using treats to lure/reward "sit" means you have to wave treats around forever to get the dog to sit

It's just another way to teach a behaviour.... I can't see the harm in it?

Kord knew what "leave it" meant within a week. I did not use trade. If he left it he got praise or a different reward. I have never traded with him. I can take what ever I want from him at any time I want it.

With that said I want to make a point of saying that I do NOT just randomly take things from him for no reason, and I can take food back or away, but unless there is a reason to I leave him be. Fair is fair, he has to stay out of the kitchen while I eat, so I leave his food alone when he does.

All bets are off though if you try raiding the cat treat box.

My advice, teach him leave it, it's very simple. Oh and the banging the bowl for food thing, simple one for that too, I use to pour, and I mean pour and scatter Kords kibble on the kitchen floor in the morning, he had to:

A) Wait for me to tell him could eat

B) It made him slow down, he was an inhaler

C) No bowl to knock over.

Now this did not solve my issue of him being a recreational water drinker and bowl dumper, but that is another story or 2 or 3.....

Max *trades*.  I've never actually taught him *drop it* or *leave it* but if I walk toward him and say "Max, no" or "Max, you shouldn't have that" he drops it and rolls over for a belly rub. Given his size, he looks a tad bit goofy doing that, but at least he lets whatever it is go. He has always responded that way, so I've wondered if perhaps whoever had him before me taught it to him. Whoever it was, they only had him for a very short time since he was estimated to be between 3 and 5 months when I snagged him out of the shelter.

Joyce

 I've had Tootsie since she was 10 weeks and I've never used the the "trade" method. Its always been "leave it' or "drop it". I can remove anything from her mouth at anytime, but usually use "drop it", so I've never really taken anything from her. She willingly gives it up. This is also a dog with a ridicuously soft mouth. She won't even play tug with me.

 We've never "traded" with Dell, and we never use the word "trade".  It's always "leave" when we want them to drop it.  But I did use a "trade-y" method with my old dog, because if he wanted something badly enough, he would just run off with it, and his legs were far faster than mine.  Using this method, I could have a toddler take a pigs ear from him without him turning a hair or I could have him bring me a chicken wing he found on the ground and drop it at my feet.   

Dell is a much softer dog.  If she has something you don't want her to have, there are 2 ways to deal with it: 1. Say "WOW!  WHAT have you got there?!  Can I see?!!"  and she will bring it over and put it in your hand, looking mighty pleased with herself.  Or 2: Say "Rhubard!  Curtains!" in a sharp tone while looking at the object, and she will drop it as if scalded and cringe.  It doesn't HAVE to be rhubarb and curtains; you could say ANYTHING.  Getting stuff from her is ridiculously easy, BUT (and this is a big butt) - I don't think she is a "better" dog for it, I don't think the relationship with her is better and I don't think she is better trained.  It's just the way she is.  I don't think the method used is particularly important, provided it's not dangerous - and I don't think "trade" is dangerous.  Some methods ARE, with some dogs.... "trade" never is, as far as I am aware.  So, sight unseen, to people I have never met, on a forum... "trade" is what I feel best recommending.

I do think it's important to give them space when they eat, and NOT interfere the vast majority of the time.... Sometimes I wonder if preventative training backfires on people because it CAUSES a problem.... I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to be left in peace while eating.  It's pretty normal.  Then again, that's how I was raised.  If I need to, I can reach into their mouths and take anything.... but I just don't want to the vast majority of the time.  I don't like it.  To me, it seems distasteful, even rude, unless you are doing it as a one off and only because the item is very dangerous. But then, I'm a bit odd like that.  I also don't like it when people swoop down and pick up babies with little or no preamble, or pass them round like a new fashion accessory....  Just because you can, doesn't mean you SHOULD.