Female problems....how do I keep them from fighting? They never fought before, this is new?

I'm sure that this isn't what you want to hear but I think that the easiest way to prevent fights is to keep the dogs seperated.  I have learned that bitches tend to hold grudges, & they fight to the death.  That is a risk that I wouldn't take with my dogs.

My dogs need to go over there and exercise. I have a Terrier and walks aren't enough.   She needs that offleash run time.   I don't why they started this.  Allie normally is the one to start things.   Typically she starts to bully Ziva very quickly.    We've been using their yard for their running since Jack and Ziva were pups.  Way before Allie came into the picture.    I don't want to give up that time for them to run.    And its not fair to Jack and Allie to not get to play together.   its only been the last few times, the last 2 in particular.   I just can't figure out what set Allie off.   Ziva is such a submissive dog that I don't know what she would have done that would have bothered Allie

Surely this is a temporary problem that can be fixed.   They were such good buddies until a few weeks ago.   Never once did they have a problem with each other.  Infact they used to get on better than either of them got on with Jack.

So I need tips on how to fix this.  Seperating isn't an option because we need the yard

"I have learned that bitches tend to hold grudges, & they fight to the death."

I don't think that is accurate.  Most of the dogs I've had have been female/female.   Most of the dogs we know are in a household of 2 or 3 female dogs.  Never a problem.    Honestly I've had more issues with the male/female combo.   But none of my females have ever had issues with each other.

In my experience there are more fights between males and females.  In my experience females have been the gentler sex.

now two unaltered  males are terrible when it comes to fighting.   Maybe you are referring to unaltered females.  Maybe they get nasty with each other.

my dogs are fixed.  All my dogs always have been and I've never seen an issue with the females like I do the male/female combo

I'm not sure how small dogs mature, but for large dogs this would actually make a lot of sense, since you say the females are 1.5/2 years old.  This is when a dog like mine reaches their maturity, and when problems that were never there before start to come out full force.  "Bitches equal stitches".  I don't like to anthropomorphize, but I do think dogs are like people in that not all dogs like each other.  Sometimes two just won't get along or get sick of each other.  For example, Nikon plays every day with Coke and Kenya, if I bring him to my in-laws he respecfully ignores their ailing 13 year old cocker spaniel, if I let him near my friend's dog he tries to pick fights (also an intact male GSD about the same age).  There are some dogs he plays with, some he ignores, and some he just plain doesn't like.

But this has been the last 2 visits really, maybe 3 visits.   They have always gotten alone better together than either dog got along with Jack.   But now.  I don't know it was very sudden.   Allie just attacked Ziva out of nowhere.

 Ziva is a year old and 21lbs.  So a small dog.  Typically she keeps to herself when playing over there, and Jack and Allie run around together.   But when her and allie play together they always play so nicely.

Allie is probably close to 5 or 6 years old.

When  she was adopted the ad said 2 years old but the rescue told them she could be anywhere from 2 to 5 years old.  And she acts about 5 years old.   

I don't get what could have triggered it.   Ziva didn't try anything.    She was actually digging in the sandbox when Allie came up and just bit into her.  Normally she wouldn't fight back but this time she did.  But we couldn't get to them in time.  

Again i don't know where you all are getting the female/female don't get along.   I have never had a problem with females together.  Infact my male poodle is the only male in the entire family.   I've had more trouble though in the past with Male/Male and Male/Female

What I want to know is how do I fix this?

How do I get them back on track?

They were good friends and they can be again

Abbeyroad86

I don't think that is accurate.  Most of the dogs I've had have been female/female.   Most of the dogs we know are in a household of 2 or 3 female dogs.  Never a problem.    Honestly I've had more issues with the male/female combo.   But none of my females have ever had issues with each other.

Consider yourself very, VERY lucky that you haven't had female aggression problems before. 

Other than keeping them seperated, I have no advice.  There is no way that I would force two dogs who don't get along to be together.  It is, imo, to big of a risk.

Okay but you are missing the point. They always got along before.   But in the last 2 or 3 visits fights have broke out.    So its not that they don't get along its that the last few times they saw each other scuffles have broke out.

They always got along before so there has to be a way to fix it.  So they will get along again.    And I really don't believe that that female agression thing you are talking about exists.

My dad has 4 females, all get along great.   They get along with my female too.

My mom haed 2 females, one recently passed away.

I had 2 females for a very long time.

My aunt has 2 females

My best friend has 3 females.  No problems

I'm not missing your point at all.  I completely understand what you are saying, I'm just warning you that this may not be a "fixable" problem.

 I have lived with two females who were the best of friends until one day they started hating each other.  My 4 year ols australian shepherd attacked my 1.5 year old boxer.  At the time, I couldn't see any of the warning signs, & I thought that the attack was totally out of the blue.  In hindsight, & with much more dog experience in reading dogs now, I can say that all of the warning signs were there, & I just missed them.  After the first fight, I was convinced that it was a freak incident, so I continued to keep them together.  After their third fight my vet questioned why I was forcing them to stay together when it was obvious that they hated each other.  After he pointed it out, it was painfully obvious, just by watching them together, that they did hate each other.  I ended up keeping them apart in different areas of the house.  It wasn't an optimal living situation but it was better than the alternative.

Currently, I live with 7 dogs, 4 females, 3 males.  We have no problems at all.  That being said, I am very good at reading my dog's body language, & I can prevent issues from arising.  I also know that there is a chance that, one day, I may have to crate & rotate.

I can recommend some books for you and your grandmother to read.  I would recommend that you find a dog behaviorist.  That person can come to your grandmother's house and observe the dogs and help you plan a program.  In the end, wondering about why a behavior starts at any given time is not as productive as getting the behavior controlled.  Sometimes there is a clear cut change in routine or circumstances and  you can say "ah ha!  the new boyfriend is the problem" or whatever.  But often there is no known trigger and it's a matter of dealing with the problem before it becomes more serious. 

In the meantime, I would not take your dogs over to play or interact with Allie.  I would encourage you to have Allie thoroughly checked at the Vet.  There can be medical causes of sudden aggression.  It's better to avoid any more fights until you have a plan.

Jean Donaldson has a book called "Fight" on the treatment of dog to dog aggression.  If you want to delve more deeply, read Brenda Aloff's "Aggression in Dogs"  Most aggression is fear based and using any form of punishment to overcome the aggression has the opposite effect.

As far as dog/gender and fighting.  I've had females who lived happily together their entire lives.  Males, ditto.  Male/female, ditto.  And any combination of those you can imagine.  There are no hard and fast rules when it comes to dog to dog aggression.  Good luck and keep us posted.  Vet visit first!!

I have to agree with Amanda. She isn't saying that 2 females will always fight but it tends to be more common and longterm. They don't fight, get it out of their system and move on. I came to this forum sevaral years ago for the very reason you're writing about. I had had a male and female lab. The male passed away and I rescued a female lab. The 2 got along wonderfully for quite some time and then they had a scuffle. Not too bad but not long after they had another and it was worse. Then it became more frequent and very scary. We could never figure any one trigger nor could we point to either dog as the cause. We met with a behaviorist and to sum up what she said "sometimes roommates live together and get along most of the time but sometimes they can't stand to look at the other". My dogs were the same. They could do fine for months between fights and then out of nowhere, they were at it. The only true way to protect them is to keep them separate unless we're with them and even then, we manage them very carefully. I wish you luck in finding the answer you're looking for and I'd highly recommend seeking the help of a behaviorist.

Re: the issue of female/female fighting isn't something we've fabricated. You can google it and find a lot of information.

 I agree. Bitches hold grudges. You can't force two dogs to be friends, dogs are like people, they like who they like.

Are there any resources involved that they could be guarding? (toys, food, you...)  Is one constantly pestering the other?  Do they play for a while and then get sick of each other?  If they just go into the yard and immediately start going at it, sounds more like they just don't like each other and aren't going to play well.  Do either of them play with other dogs?  Could you take them to the dog park and see if they will play near each other, but just not with each other, for starters?

Abbeyroad86

They were good friends and they can be again

I doubt it. Females DO hold grudges (kinda like human females) And once they decide the DO NOT like another dog - they are NOT going to like that dog. Period

Female/Female pairing is the least favorable amoung trainers. I prefer male dogs for this reason.

Since the dogs do not live together, I would keep your grandparents dog away from your dogs when they come to run. No sense in forcing them together, unless you want to end up in the doggy er, when they really start to do damage.

Abbeyroad86

And I really don't believe that that female agression thing you are talking about exists.

I worked at a doggie daycare for YEARS - all altered dogs - and females DO fight, worse than males. Especially females in that age bracket. If you don't want to believe it, fine.

I don't understand why your grandparent's dog can't stay inside while you use the yard? If it's THAT essential for you to use the space, just find a way to keep the girls separate while they play with your boy.