Cesar dog undergoes *canine disarming*

If he had bit and released, that would be one thing, but he attacked and would not let go.

Just an addendum here - this is the bite style of a lot of terriers, and is really irrelevant to the decision IMO.  Had he been a herder, he might have given a sneak bite and let go, or issued multiple bites up your arm and let go.  So, you could just as well have argued that you had to euth him because he was "sneaky" (fearful) but DID let go.  It's the untrustworthiness and low bite threshold that are the real issues, not so much the type.

ColleenC

I had one of our rescue Parsons grab my friends little girl's finger. He latched on through the kennel and started pulling. Instead of getting him off the smart way, I decided to unlatch his mouth with my hands. He got my hand way in the back on his mouth and pulled and pulled. The wounds didn't hurt that bad, but my entire hand was blue and swollen. Needless to say, filing that dogs canines would have done no good. He was put down. We couldn't trust him after that. If he had bit and released, that would be one thing, but he attacked and would not let go.

  It sounds like he was in a crate or kennel and someone stuck their hand in with him? I don't really see where that could be described as "he attacked"...

  I read the article and this thread and I have to say, I don't see any problem with this procedure. If the dog had all of his teeth removed, that would be one thing (although I have seen old dogs with little to no teeth do ok) but filing them down doesn't seem like a big deal, especially if the alternative is to kill the dog for his behavior. While her choice of trainers/training may not have been ideal, she certainly did far more than many owners. I find it interesting that some elective surgeries are considered "good" such as altering and others are considered "bad" such as this or debarking.

AgileGSD

I find it interesting that some elective surgeries are considered "good" such as altering and others are considered "bad" such as this or debarking.

Not in my book.  I don't agree with elective/preventative surgeries in the vast majority of cases.

AgileGSD

It sounds like he was in a crate or kennel and someone stuck their hand in with him? I don't really see where that could be described as "he attacked"...

 Me neither.  I don't think I would have put a dog down for that... maybe if there was otehr stuff going on, but not just that.

 Agile, I agree with you that the JRT did not exactly respond unprovoked, and I might have considered behavior modification if there was time or resources for it.  Barrier aggression can be modified, but fear biting is often the hardest thing.  I just don't like it when the "evaluation" consists of a knee jerk reaction that says euth the dog because he bit like a terrier, which is what he is, without considering whether there's a remedy.  He might have made a good ratter at horse barn where he wouldn't have had to be confined in a crate;-)

As the owner of a toothless dog, I can tell you that her jaw still has a pretty good grab in terms of pounds per square inch:-)  She only weighs six pounds, but if she were a large dog, the absence of teeth might not mean absence of injury if she bit.  The issue here is that removal, or filing, of the teeth does nothing to alter the behavior, which is still obnoxious, dangerous, or both.  I don't like the false sense of security that filing might give someone, only to have them receive a crush bite.

While some of Cesar Millan's techniques are very good, others are dangerous and cruel. I've seen him physically hit, choke, and shock a dog. He really should be indited for cruelty to animals.

I see absolutey no point to that procedure. The dog will still have plenty of large teeth and can just as easily crush whatever body part its biting.

js4562361

While some of Cesar Millan's techniques are very good, others are dangerous and cruel. I've seen him physically hit, choke, and shock a dog. He really should be indited for cruelty to animals.

At the risk of starting a flame war, which we have suffered through before on this topic, I'll just say that I think some of his techniques display a lack of education about dog behavior and training which is unfortunate, given the bully pulpit he has been able to create for himself courtesy of Oprah and a few other celebrities, who, last time I checked, didn't have any particular expertise in this field either.  The really sad thing is that themanner in which he is idolized by the uninformed masses has marginalized, in the eyes of that public, some of the best minds in canine cognitive science, and some of the most humane and effective trainers (and that includes some correction trainers, too). He's the "rock star", and it's hard to compete with that.  Sort of like trying to tell people to diet, when they'd rather pop the ineffective weight loss pill and hope for a miracle. 

ColleenC

filing that dogs canines would have done no good. He was put down. We couldn't trust him after that.

No one should be judging you for making a decision that was I'm sure not easy for you.You did the responsable thing as far as I am concerned.

As far as the OP.....I think altering a dog's mouth will not heal his mind.I wouldn't ever consider a procedure like this.

Tena

I have to agree that filing the teeth down is useless. Bite inhibition is what should be worked on. Dogs need their teeth, for the most part.I guess we draw the line somewhere. I believe in spay/neuter but not teeth filing. I'm non-committal on tail docking and ear clipping. I can understand where those latter procedures might help the animal and are certainly part of a breed look and many a wonderful owner clips and docks. Many a wonderful owner keeps intact dogs. I just think the teeth filing was a misstep.

I've been staying out of this,but do have to ask...did CM suggest this procedure?  If not, we shouldn't be flogging him.  And, even if so, don't the owners bare any responsibility in allowing the procedure?

As the owner of a wannabe fear biter, this isn't something I would do.  I've worked very hard to desensitize Sheba and when she's going to be in a stressful situation, which is rare, she wears her basket muzzle rather happily. 

glenmar

...did CM suggest this procedure?

Nope, he did not

In that case, the only fault I can find with him is the perception of the public that there is a quick fix for any problem.  And, that is not his fault.  That's the sad state of human nature these days.

 Heck, Glenda, as the owner of a dog with a serious bite record, I wouldn't put her through this procedure. Her canines are ALREADY filed, and were, when she inflicted her most serious bite. She destroyed most of her teeth, before she was 2, with her ridiculous chewing. It's pointless.

As serious as the puncture I took from that rottie, I shudder to think what it would have been like had he REALLY bitten.  The pressure of that dogs bite DID bruise most of my leg....I think the bruise was 10 or 12 inches long and went all the way around my leg.

So, back ON topic.....if you have a dog with biting issues, regardles of the reason, you have to DEAL with those issues, and at the very least make sure that you manage the dog and the situations that you put said dog into.  And then you have to make the decision about whether or not the management impacts quality of life.  Filing teeth doesn't take the sting out of a bite....the pressure is incredible.  Why bother?

 Seriously.... management, I think, is the MOST important part. Emma's like Sheba. She LIKES her muzzle, and knows that she can't bite in it, so she doesn't even try.