What kind of choke collar

mudpuppy

Any trainer who insisted one use this or that device would be an ex-trainer for me these days.

Yup, I agree with this as well. No trainer has the right to insist that you use "something", no matter the tool. I wouldn't attend a class where there was a recommended collar apparatus either (with the exception of perhaps an aggressive resocialization class, that a few extremely talented trainers hold). However, there is nothing wrong with making suggestions, especially if there is an extremely unruly dog in the class that is interrupting the flow of learning for all other members.

I've taken my fair share of classes, for both observation purposes and dog socialization purposes. I have run the gamut from correction-based training classes, to mixed (P+/R+) classes, to actual clicker classes, to sport dog classes (Rally, agility....I won't include conformation since there actually is appropriate show wear for those dogs). The only class that ever insisted on a particular collar was a choke collar, and the trainer tried to force us (at least he treated the dogs and students the same!!) into using one. I left after the first night and didn't return. So I know the feeling of being forced to use any sort of tool, and I agree it's a no-no for me too. But it just goes to show that like anything else, it happens with all tools, and it doesn't fall to any particular "type" of trainer.

mudpuppy

Dogs, and people are all different in their likes and dislikes.  We need to make room in our minds for individuality and not look for a one size fits all solution to everything.

agreed. but my history is with "purely postive trainers" who insist all dogs must wear head halters, they are so humane, despite the evidence in front of them of dogs bucking wildly, dogs lying depressed, dogs begging silently to have this torture device removed from their nose. Listen to the dogs. I would try all other devices FIRST before going to a head-halter because the majority of dogs seem to think they are devices of torture. Any trainer who insisted one use this or that device would be an ex-trainer for me these days.

I don't know where you've trained, but positive trainers in this area certainly do not require any student to use a GL if they prefer not to.  GL's are just one of the suggestions that might come up if someone has a dog that pulls, or is leash reactive, but it certainly is not the only suggestion.  I also think you may have been dealing with people who think positive, but don't have much skill.  I DO listen to the dogs, and while I would not force a dog that was miserable in one to wear a GL, the fact is that most dogs acclimate to them just as well as they do to martingales, Easy Walks, muzzles, anxiety wraps, clothing, hats, Doggles, booties, cats, elevators, or anything else, if they are properly introduced.  And, it does not, as has been suggested here, take months to get a dog used to one.  That's not true, unless the dog was improperly introduced to one in the first place and someone is trying to get him to accept it remedially - first impressions are important, hence the need to know what you are doing.  This is not a device I ask students to just get and use - I offer to show them how to acclimate the dog, how to fit the halter properly, how to use it, and also how not to use it.

I have been reading, but I am not going to get into a discussion about collars I haven't used, i would be wasting my time and not saying much.

What I would like to say is that it is generally a man(and no offense to all men) who think that a person should never need any type of collar but a flat collar to teach a dog. When you have the luxury of strength, it IS easier. WHen a dog outweighs you ,and you didn't have the luxury of starting it off right when it was small, then there needs to be a weight equalizer for a period of time until the dog learns what is expected of him. If there isn't, it is an unsafe situation for the dog and the handler. Bear does not outweigh me, but she can give me a run for my money even at 45 pounds.

But if I need a reminder, I get it every day I walk untrained dogs at the shelter who outweigh me, and even the ones who don't, but are still big dogs. In a perfect world, they would all be mannerly before they go for their first walk, but that's not the way it is most of the time. The other day a meduim size dog took me off guard and dropped me right on a hill at the shelter. In all honesty, i would love to use a special collar on all the dogs there to be able to take more of them for a walk without just being beat, by having every single dog pull constantly while we are walking.

Hi

Personally, I prefer to use flat collars. I handle all kinds fo dogs, and so often I notice that dogs are inhibited in their learning with even the rattling of a correction chain. I am a touch over 6ft though and can restrain quite large dogs of I have too.

I really like the infini 8 head cllar made by blackdog here in Melbourne Australia. It is so flexible and works so well. I have had hardly any acceptance issues with it and it allows weaning off. I highly reccomend it. No I am not paid to endorse them, it is just very good. :) I am a bit so so about the halti and GL.

I am a bit hesitant to totally reject prongs out of hand. Quite  a few disabled /smaller people have had a dog life with them, but they are a less preferred option.

I really find the correction collar a "tool" that hardly ever delivers what its supporters suggest it will deliver.I have yet to see more than a handful of trainers  use it with anything like the timing that one needs when using R-/P+ ways "humanely". They are hardly ever fitted "correctly", and very few people can actually stop dogs pulling with them in anything like a "humane" fashion. They do make veyr good pot plant holders though

I tried a GL on Nikon this weekend. At first he froze and then tried to rub it off his face, but then I started feeding him and playing with toys and he forgot it was on.  Forget about walking though, anything a leash is on the thing he throws a fit.  I decided not to use it b/c I don't like how they put marks on the dog's muzzle and Nikon will be a show dog for a while yet.  The EasyWalk doesn't do anything to his fur (though I've seen it chafe some dogs).