Dog Community

She bit a stranger! Help!

Posted : 4/6/2006 5:02:51 PM

A couple of days ago, Ash and I were leaving our apartment and walking to the car. As we were walking, a man was walking towards us, just crossing paths. Ash wasn't growling or anything, just sniffing the grass. When he got shuolder to shoulder with me, exactly as we were passing, Ash lunged at him and bit his arm. She then continued to growl the entire time I was apologizing to the man. I had no idea how to handle this situation or what to say to him, other than I'm so sorry because this has never happened.

Ash has never done this. She has air snapped at 2 vets who have made her nervous, but NEVER bitten anyone. I was so distraught because one, she bit someone. Two, I live in an apartment complex where Ash is clearly above the weight limit already (as long as she's not a problem, they don't say anything) and I can get evicted for having an "aggressive" dog.

Backing up a little, it was raining outside and the man was wearing a poncho. He had a thick coat on underneath the poncho, so I highly doubt she broke any skin. He said she didn't "really" bite him, but he just continued to stare at her. He asked if she was a Heeler and I said yes and he said, "She's protecting you." He didn't say anything after this and just kept staring at her. It was kinda weird. I kept apologizing and Ash kept growling and he finally said, "It's alright" and walked away.

Ash does growl at strangers and I have found it very difficult to walk her because she will lunge at anything that "rolls" by and will growl at strangers walking by. So I drive to areas and go at times of the day when I know people won't really be out. I'm thinking I may have been contributing to the problem now by keeping her away from people. I just don't know what to do.

I immediately started muzzling her whenever we come and go at the apartment because I just can't take that chance that she will do it again. I don't really know my neighbors, but I know that they all consider Ash to be scary because of how she growls. And you should see her when I put the muzzle on her! She hangs her head and looks the saddest, most pathetic thing ever. She won't move and I have to practically drag her everywhere. She won't even go potty with that muzzle on. She just stands still with her head hanging.

Can anyone tell me what I should do about this? How do I correct the growling and why did she bite that man? It's been on my mind since it's happened. Sorry for this being all over the place.

Sandra TH

Posted : 4/6/2006 7:19:20 PM

Oh, I feel for ya... Take a deep breath. I don't know enough to offer you advice, but I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than I will be along soon. Hang in there!

He is The Boss

Posted : 4/6/2006 7:33:06 PM

The parka might have had something to do with her reaction to the man. I wish I knew more to tell you how to deal with it, but I am still dealing with it in Boss, although he has not actually bitten anyone.

It does sound like the man was understanding and perhaps knowledgable of dogs enough to recognize Ash was protecting you.

Some of the books I have read at Anne's suggestions and am working on incorporating them into our life are Fiesty Fido, Click to Calm and The Cautious Canine.

mrv

Posted : 4/6/2006 8:03:14 PM

OK we are talking cattle dogs here. Now before anybody gets offended, I like cattle dogs. This is a pushy breed that will take control any time it appears necessary. Cattle dogs do best when it is absolutely clear to them who is the boss and that the boss can handle what ever occurs. I would suggest your dog thought it was necessasry to take offensive action (verses defensive action). This is at best a GUESS.

I would work on lots of basic obedience AND lots of work on socialization with DOG Savy people. Look for folks at training centers or training clubs. Get on a cattle dog discussion list. Subscribe to the cattle dog magazine of the AKC cattle dog club. The clubs often have folks who are good mentors. Start going to dog shows and meet cattle dog people.

willowchow

Posted : 4/6/2006 8:08:17 PM

I would make sure you do not get "shoulder to shoulder" with anyone again. I make a huge effort to get out of people's way when I'm with my dog. I've had people follow me believe it or not but I do not walk past anyone close enough that she could grab them.

ashland

Posted : 4/6/2006 10:58:53 PM

Lori- Sorry, I should have said it better. We weren't "shoulder to shoulder" so to speak. We were just crossing paths. I was walking in his direction and he was walking in mine, but we weren't as close to each other as I may have made it sound (unintentionally). That's what made it even more surprising to me, because Ash lunged and jumped in the air and bit his arm. She kinda had to leap/jump over to him in order to get to his arm. Although, I could have had her leash held up tighter. If she hadn't had leeway on the leash, she wouldn't have been able to jump over to him. That is a mistake I will not be making again. [

]

MRV- Thank you for the GREAT suggestions! I will definitely do those things. I think I may call the trainer I used for Ash because she has a cattle dog. Her cattle dog was from the SPCA and was very aggressive when she got her, but you would never know it now. That dog is as calm as still water. She listens so well and you would just never believe that this dog would be disobedient or aggressive in any way, although my trainer assured me that she used to be very scary. Her dog was about to be put to sleep before she adopted her. She had advised me to really be firm with Ash because cattle dogs NEED to know without a shadow of a doubt who is the boss. They're stubborn too.

Ahhh . .. sorry I want off topic there a bit. I'm going to enroll "us" in another training class. Maybe refresher training or something. Maybe agility too. Of herding? They have both classes so I'm gonna try one. I'm thinking the more I train her and the more she is working, the better her and I will be together. I really think Ash knows I'm the boss when we're at home. I'm not just saying that either. I swear. She listens to me very well (except for one command). I always make her do something before I feed her and before we go anywhere, even to potty. She has to sit before I open any doors. I always go out of the door first (I read that somewhere). She doesn't even get on the bed until I tell her too. But whenever we're somewhere else, I'm not so sure. When we go to my parents house, it's a different story. Hmmm . .. o.k. as I ramble I'm realizing that yes, "we" need more training. [

] She needs to ALWAYS know I am the boss and she needs to be socialized.

Anyways, enough of my babbling.

ashland

Posted : 4/6/2006 11:04:13 PM

trishanne420- I forgot to say that my mom also thought it had something to do with the parka. His hood was on too. My mom also thinks, like only a mother would, that this man may have been some serial killer/rapist and Ash just knew that he was the devil incarnate and was protecting me against Satan himself. My mom was concerned about the biting, but immediately went into Mom mode and started asking questions like, "Have you seen this man before?" and "Why was he just staring at Ash?" "What did he look like?" "Did you see where he was coming from and where he parked?" "Which direction was he going?" "Ash has never done anything like this before, so maybe she sensed something Sylvia."

mrv

Posted : 4/6/2006 11:08:08 PM

If you want to do herding with your cattle dog I respectfully suggest you check out Larry Painter
[linkhttp://hometown.aol.com/kuawarri/kuawarri.index.html]http://hometown.aol.com/kuawarri/kuawarri.index.html[/link]

Cappy Pruett
[linkhttp://www.cappypruett.com/]http://www.cappypruett.com/[/link]

If you can manage to get into a Bob Vest clinic do that too. It took me more than three years to get into one of Bob's clinics.

rredbird

Posted : 4/7/2006 11:01:56 AM

Your mom might not be so far off (although I would still get the training going).

The only two times Lani ever reacted negatively in her 12-1/2 years she was right on target with her assessment skills. One was a maintenance worker who turned out to have anger issues and the other was a kid and his older brother. When Lani went for the kid I was angry and scared but found out later both had been continually exposed to porn and had too much interest in my daughter. I thanked Lani profusely later and apologized for not listening to her earlier!

Julie Byers

Posted : 4/7/2006 1:18:33 PM

This makes me wonder if the dog was trying to do it's job: what I mean by that is in reference to what Mic said in another thread (about dog owners vs. the breed) about most dogs were bred to do a job. This dog was trying to do what he was bred to do ( on a genetic level) which happened to have a scary result. I'm sorry I am not wording this well. Aww sheesh...Jules

spiritdogs

Posted : 4/7/2006 2:47:41 PM

If your dog is growling at many people, it isn't just the parka. If she is lunging forward, instead of backing up, I do have some concerns that she is simply "guardy" and not fearful. Cattle dogs are not the easiest dogs to live with because they need a job, and they need firm, but benevolent leadership at all times, and if they are nippy, they need to be managed so that they don't "heel" humans.
I think it's fine to join a cattle dog list and talk to cattle dog people - just don't assume that you need to be nasty to your dog to rehab her. Operant conditioning works on the herders, too :-)

)

ashland

Posted : 4/7/2006 3:17:58 PM

I agree Anne. I would never train her in anything but positive ways. And she only really lunges at things that "roll" by. When she was a puppy, it was much easier to get her to stop, but now . . . [

] She doesn't lunger at strangers walking by. She will growl though.

He is The Boss

Posted : 4/7/2006 8:06:01 PM

The first time Boss acted strange towards a stranger was a man walking past our house with a hoodie on. the guy gave me the creeps too. If I was walking down a sidewalk and a pit bull was barking and growling I would look as I walked past to make sure that he wasn't going to get me. This man just adjusted his hoodie and kept walking, never even glanced sideways. It was very creepy to me and Boss thought so too.

It's very possible in this instance Ash did sense something about that man. When I first read your post I did wonder about his statement of saying Ash was protecting you.. did he feel that someone should protect you from him??