Do dogs just know that you are proud of them?

You have to show that you're proud of them somehow, if only through body language. Dogs are good at body language, though.

Dogs are great at sensing emotions and reading body language. When Nikki FINALLY went through that silly agility tunnel I was so happy....Nikki in turn needed a minute of bouncing around herself after she say how proud of her I was.  So yes, I definately think dogs know when we are proud of them, so long as we show it in our body language and voice.  

they understand body language best

Dogs are very good at reading body language and picking up on the subtlest cues from us, as well as detecting changes in body temperature and smelling chemical changes.... they can read things about us even we don't know.  But that doesnt mean they read what we want them to when they get something right, you have to make it obvious to them.  Dogs are not mediums.
 
IMO, when training you have to make a dogs advantages/disadvatages to every choice very clear and very black and white.  Frequently in a class I see the trainer go to correct owners and let them know that they aren't praising the dog enough, or at the right time and they aren't making it obvious to the dog that it is raise.... men can be terrible for it, probably because they don't like getting gushy in public!  Hands up anyone who runs a class and agrees with me?
 
This is one of the issues I have with some of CMs methods, he will correct correct correct and eventually the dog gives up and stops doing anything.  CM says he now has "calm-submissive energy".  He shows classical signs of anxiety - probably because he is waiting for another correction because no one has said to him "Yes, you got it right".  I have yet to see later shows where does use some positive reinforcement.

hey understand body language best

Anybody thinks that praising 'by body language' only is sufficient?

My dogs know when I'm happy with what they're doing only becasue for a long time they have had a history of observing my body language in conjunction with me providing them with tangible rewards. If I had gotten a happy squeaky voice on and danced around and then smacked them both on the nose, they'd associate that body language with punishment, not reward. But as it so happens, I have paired what we think of as "proud" and "happy" body language with tangible rewards enough times that even when no reward is present, that body language and tone of voice has become a conditioned reinforcer.
 
Mudpuppy pointed out in another thread, and Jean Donaldson also points out in her book, that dogs who appear to perform for verbal praise only are probably dogs who have been harshly trained and had to become expert pretty quickly in the signs related to when they were about to get whalloped or not. And I'll plead guilty there with Conrad, as I used to train him quite harshly. And it most definately shows. One nasty glance from me and that dog is rolling over in appeasement. It's not something I'm proud of.

What she said. ^^^
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If I had gotten a happy squeaky voice on and danced around and then smacked them both on the nose, they'd associate that body language with punishment, not reward.

Makes sense.

And I'll plead guilty there with Conrad, as I used to train him quite harshly.

How did you train him?

To be honest, I am surprised how many people see training in such black-and white terms - "Whose group do you belong to??". To me training is art, of sorts. Or, just plain communication with another being; it can be so easy if you don't overanalyze it. Sometimes I think that, the more I read about how to do it right, the harder it gets. It's like I am trying to match Q and As. No wonder children can teach a dog new tricks faster than adults can - there is no luggage, no evaluation of methods, just plain honest attempt to communicate with another being.
When I was little, we had a German Shep. Granted she was well socialized with kids, etc., but, as I think back on it, it seamed so easy to tell her "Go that way. Stay. Enough howling." (She loved to howl sitting next to me when I played piano.) I didn't care what position she was in- SIT or DOWN, as long as she stayed if I needed her to.
Sure we teach dogs unnatural behaviors (not to pull on leash, etc.); I would never use "punishment" or "corrections" do teach a dog these behaviors. But I think there are also things that dogs understand inherently. And I can't give you a scientifically proven list of what these things are, but some of them *I think* are : "Leave such and such alone (person, cat)", "I am not playing with you now", "I am not awake yet","Let me take my seat on this couch/bed". For these kinds of things I don't use rewards. I just assume he knows I am happy.
I did use a treat to teach my dog that if I point to the floor - it means out of bed. I've only used it 2-3 times, I dropped it quick - he learned what I meant...

ORIGINAL: TinaK

To me training is art, of sorts. Or, just plain communication with another being; it can be so easy if you don't overanalyze it. Sometimes I think that, the more I read about how to do it right, the harder it gets. It's like I am trying to match Q and As. No wonder children can teach a dog new tricks faster than adults can - there is no luggage, no evaluation of methods, just plain honest attempt to communicate with another being.

 
Thank you!  How wonderfully refreshing!  A very good point.

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

.... men can be terrible for it, probably because they don't like getting gushy in public!  Hands up anyone who runs a class and agrees with me?

 
[sm=eek.gif]  [sm=smack.gif]      [sm=uhoh.gif]

I have no idea what that series of emoticons means but I have a feeling I'm in trouble!  It was a generalisation, I didn't mean ALL men.  Don't shoot me.

Since I'm trained as a teacher (of humans) I also see training as both an art and a science (as is teaching), and I try to keep them balanced in my mind. If science says that something I'm doing is not the best way to do it, I'll stop doing it. The art comes in in adapting what science says to your unique conditions.
 
I said I trained harshly, not that I followed any particular program.  A lot of my information came from the Monks of New Skete but I just kind of winged it in a lot of ways, unfortunately. Which I now see was a totally unnecesary way to deal with Conrad, a naturally submissive, soft and somewhat anxious dog. But at the time the information I had was along the lines of "all dogs need to be shown who's boss" and "when a dog defies your command, he is being dominant and must be punsihed." And that made me very harsh, it made things really way too personal between me and Conrad. I took his misbehavior entirely too personally and reacted accordingly.
 
As I say, what I did with him definatley made an impression that he has not forgotton. We have a lovely relationship, he didn't turn aggressive or anything, which is just sheer luck on my part. But he is somewhat shut-down and in the past year I've really made an effort to reteach him in order to turn him back on.