Biting Cocker Spaniel -- Please Help!!!!

    • Bronze

    Biting Cocker Spaniel -- Please Help!!!!

    I am worried sick about my female (2 year old and fixed) cocker spaniel dog.  Penny has been a wonderful dog up until the last few weeks. 
     
    Last week my mother (83) was trying to pull a tissue away from Penny and Penny nipped her.  Thankfully she didn't break the skin, but she did break a blood vessel.  She wasn't punished because by the time I found out (2 hours later) Penny wouldn't have known what the punishment was for. 
     
    This morning I was brushing her coat.  I have brushed her coat since she was 12 weeks old.  At first it was just a little on the sides and her ears, but now I try and brush her thoroughly because I let her coat grow during the winter time.  Well while I was brushing her coat she growled at me and snapped.  She didn't connect, but it was a definite growl & nip.  I can't have a dog that bites. 
     
    I was so shocked that she would bite at me that I just reacted.  I swatted her nose 3 times (not hard, but she knew she was hit) and then I put her in the hall where she wouldn't have any contact with mom or I and the only time I let her out of the hall was to go outside.  Her crate, food and water is also in the hall so she wasn't being deprived of things she needed just human contact. 
     
    I am planning on taking her to a trainer in a few months (can't right now because I am in physical therapy, going 3 times a week).  Is there anything that I can do in the meantime that would be constructive help?  I don't want to end up getting rid of her because I love her dearly but I cannot let her bite anybody.  I need to find a way to stop her from trying to bite.  I know I can buy a muzzle, but I don't think that is a solution to the problem, just a quick fix. 
     
    Can anyone please help? 
     

     
    • Gold Top Dog
    Vet appointment first. If this is a totally new and uncharacteristic behavior it may be because she's ill or in pain. Start with that... if you rule out illness/injury I'd proceed with a behaviorist (rather than a trainer) who can help you figure out why she's acting that way.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I understand that what you did in the moment, was simply how you reacted. Please do not do it again.
     
    Your dog needs an experienced behaviorist to come to your home for a complete evaluation of everyone who is interacting with this dog, the dog's behavior, and the specific details of the dog's daily routine.
     
    The dog should not be taken to a trainer or enrolled in an basic obedience class to address this behavior. IMO
     
    I recommend you check to see if there is a behaviorist in your area through:
     
    [linkhttp://www.dogpro.org/]www.dogpro.org/[/link]
     
    Good luck.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I agree with Jones.  Sudden changes in behavior are quite oftne due to injury or illness.  That's the FIRST step, and hopefully very soon.
    • Bronze
    I understand how you feel.  I had a blonde cocker that went nuts on me and started bitting my kids.  I tried everything I could think of but nothing worked so I had to give the dog away for the safety of my kids.
    • Bronze
    Well I don't know if what I did was right or not, but I just groomed Penny again.  She tried to get down, but I didn't let her do it.  It was never a panic struggle and after she tried for a few times, she stopped and let me groom her.  She did not growl or try to bite me.  I will be trying to make an appointment at the vet for Tuesday.  I cannot on Monday because I am going to physical therapy and I don't think that one day will hurt.....at least I hope it will not. 

    I will be grooming her more often since that is the only time that she has tried to nip me and she has to learn that she is not the alpha.  She also has a habit of taking hold of my robe and pulling me into the living room to play and that is also going to stop.  I am also going to stop playing with her every time that she brings me a toy and we will play when I am ready instead of her.  I already make her sit before I let her in the house.  She also has to wait for me to enter before her.  I will admit to giving her treats whenever I was eating but am going to stop doing that.  I really think it is an alpha issue and not illness, but I will find out from the vet. 

    I have told my mother to stop giving her treats every time that she opens the frig and that even though Penny stands in front of the door every half hour to an hour she really doesn't need to go.  I typically let Penny out every 3 hours unless she whines or lays down which means she really really needs to go out. 

    I think all three of us still need to learn
    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm glad things are a little better, and you seem to have the right idea. Good to get a vet check, too.
     
    You might look up the Nothing In Life Is Free (NILIF) protocol on the internet and pick up a copy of Cesar's Way (to help you understand how your dog thinks).
     
    I hope your physical therapy goes well and things get better with your dog.
     
    [&:]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Agree, NILIF can help you a lot in this situations
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: jones

    Vet appointment first. If this is a totally new and uncharacteristic behavior it may be because she's ill or in pain. Start with that... if you rule out illness/injury I'd proceed with a behaviorist (rather than a trainer) who can help you figure out why she's acting that way.


    I'm a trainer, and I agree with jones that if the dog's behavior is unusual, that you should have her examined by a vet.  Dogs that are in pain may snap, and they don't often show pain overtly until you move them, because in the wild, that could be an invitation for a predator to get them.
    Other things that can cause pain, or aggression: diet too high in protein, hypothyroidism (ask for a complete thyroid panel - Google on Dr. Jean Dodds to find out why), Lyme disease, arthritis, ear infection (very common in Cockers). 
    No one should take objects from a dog's mouth if they are guardy or likely to snap.  Instead, teach the dog to "trade" by saying the word, and offering her some food in exchange for the object.  It's safer for everyone, and it's better than punishing, as that can make guardiness much, much worse.
    Another consideration - if you have not trained your dog to accept that you are in charge, she is now at the age when she might be expected, in a wild pack, to assert her position in the pack.  If she doesn't perceive you as the leader, she could feel that it is her right to "discipline" you for things she doesn't like.  A good trainer should be able to help you with that, but do get the vet check first, just to be sure.  Google on NILIF, and visit [linkhttp://www.clickerlessons.com]www.clickerlessons.com[/link] if you want to get a head start on turning that around in a dog-friendly way.
    Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
    Good books on our relationship with dogs, and how they think:
    The Culture Clash
    The Other End of the Leash
    The Rosetta Bone
    Bones Would Rain From the Sky
    www.dogwise.com should have most of them.

    • Bronze
    Thank you all for your help and support.  I really appreciate it and I am sure if Penny knew of all the kind people trying to help her, she would thank you too. 
     
    I am going to do everything in my power to make sure that Penny leads a healthy, happy and well-adjusted life. 
     
    I also learned a very valuable lesson in that I will never, ever get another dog from a pet store.  I think Penny came from a puppy mill and she has had many bouts of illness and problems and I have spent many many hours walking around pet stores with her getting her use to people, taking her to puppy classes, walking with her at dog parks, doing everything that I can to help her and I also think that I paid for the vet's new set of golf clubs. 
     
    The vet was amazed at the difference in her demeanor the last time I brought her in because of a health problem.  I thought a lot of her problems were taken care of but it looks like it is an ongoing thing. 
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    Oh boy.  Yep, in addition to health issues you can also end up with temperment issues.  I bred cockers for several years....sound in body, mind and temperment....but anytime it was time for the Top Ten list to come out, my breeder friends and I would hold our collective breathes that cockers weren't on it.  The more popular a breed, the more BYB's and puppy mills start cranking them out.
     
    My Rusty was my heart dog.  Rusty didn't like having his ears groomed.  He "bit" me one time....which was not even with teeth.  He put his mouth on my forearm and literally, a tooth never touched me nor was their even any discomfort...he simply touched my arm with his mouth.  And he had a perfect hunting mouth.  HE felt like such a jerk for doing it that he put himself in timeout and he was clearly distressed that he had acted "like a dog".  Now, Rusty was a special boy who didn't consider himself a dog at all and was offended by the word dog, even in relationship to dog bisquits at the bank....they were COOKIES....but not with the word DOG in them.
     
    Understand that I never had any fear of Rusty harming me.  I bought him a muzzel for grooming for HIS sake.  So that HE wasn't doing stuff that upset him and made him feel badly about himself.  I have extensive conversations with my animals....I tell them what I expect from them and when I first put that muzzle on I told him it was so he wouldn't be tempted to do something that was going to make him feel bad...that I wasn't afraid of him.  When I'd groom, I'd talk to him and tell him what I was doing and why, and "just a few more minutes and then we'll take a break"...and when I would say OK, he'd take the muzzle off by himself.  He *could* have taken the thing off at any point during the grooming but he never made any effort to do so, until we were finished and I said "OK".
     
    This is all my long way of saying, yes, pups from pet stores are almost ALWAYS from puppy mills so don't do that again.....and that if you feel the need to USE a muzzle for situations that might be stressful for your cocker, such as grooming, just TALK to her and tell her the whys and then do it.  But do it gently and with love and she'll likely accept it without a fuss.
     
    Nasty ears and ear infections ARE very common in cockers, even the well bred ones  so the vet is definately your first order of business.  It might NOT be the ears, but something else....either way my first stop with a change in behavior is the vet.
     
    When implementing NILF you want to be firm, but not unkind.  This is quite the change for her and she's going to be confused, and likely a bit rebellious.  Stand firm but do it fairly.
    • Bronze
    Penny is one of those dogs with ear problems, but they didn't start until she was about a year old.  I now use an ear wash twice a week that the vet gave me.  It isn't Penny's favorite thing in the world, but she is finally use to me putting the drops in her ears. 

    Her eyes are another problem.  They are always red and so I have to put drops in her eyes constantly.  She still ends up rubbing them against the carpet early mornings, but not all day long like she use to. 

    She also has had a staffe infection that I have taken her back to the vet several times.  The first time I took her in for the rash, the vet said that she may end up taking antibiotics every day for the rest of her life.  Last time I took her in and told him that she was constantly scratching again, he said it may be fleas that she is allergic to because he did not see the pustules. 

    She also had a very very bad stomach problem while a puppy and I even ended up taking her to ER once because she was so sick.  She will still toss her cookies once in a while, but not like she use to.  She is also prone to furballs and was going to discuss that with the vet on Tuesday.  She actually threw up a clump of fur Friday.  I don't know if keeping her fur shorter would help with that problem or not but didn't want to have her groomed until the cold weather is done with. 

    I use to bathe her once a week because of a flea problem (even with Advantage) and she stinks even right after she bathes, but have cut that way back and now use oatmeal shampoo for her.  She still stinks, still scratches but I think it is easier on her because she hates taking a bath.  During winter I haven't seen any fleas and am not sure that is because of Advantage or if they are hiding not that it has been that cold. 

    I checked her last night very carefully and she seems to have a discoloration (doesn't look like a rash) like maybe her urine may be irritating her skin, not really sure if that is what is causing problem or not, so am doubly glad I will be taking her to vet.  

    Believe me, I would never ever buy another pet store dog.  In fact the next dog I get will be a rescue or pound dog.  I would get one now where Penny would have more company (mom is retired so around all the time), but mom couldn't handle two dogs and even though Penny will play with Bruce the Moose (a HUGE black lab) of my sister's, not sure how she would react with another dog around all the time. 
     
    I think my biggest problem will be my mom.  I just tried to teach her to make Penny sit before she gives Penny a treat and mom reluctantly did it.  She won't do it while I am at work because she thinks she knows best how to raise a dog.  She has never had a dog in her life (she is 83) and so has no clue.  I may not be the most knowledgable, but I have asked for help from people who are, have done some research on the internet and have discussed problems with the vet.  ARGGGGGGGGGG
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    Good luck in training mom! [:D]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Get the Thyroid levels checked...a full panel..sent of to Doc Dodds. Aggression...coat problems..."allergies" are often part and parcel of low thyroid issues.
    • Puppy
    I have a cocker spaniel and we had the same problem with her a few years ago. She became quite aggressive (normally an extremely quiet, placid dog) especially when she was touched or brushed. Again she wasn't all out biting but she was nipping and growling. We took her to the vet and he found out she was in alot of pain with an earache of some sort. We were so thankful that it was something that we could get sorted and that she wasn't just turning on us. It cleared up within a few days with medication and now she's as placid as ever.