Remote Training Collars???

I think the best use of a remote collar to teach recall or boundaries is to first do a LOT of work in the house, then on leash, then on a long line, and only THEN move to the e-collar to proof the command. The command should already be known very well by the dog and practiced a gajillion times in situations where he cannot fail.

And then when you do get an e-collar, find a trainer who is very experienced in it's use. Just slapping one of these on a dog and pushing the button without really REALLY knowing what you're doing will do way more harm than good.

I have reconciled myself to the fact that there are some situations in which proofing with an e-collar is necessary, especially for sporting dogs who do their work off-lead with a lot of distraction around. But they aren't to be used lightly, and a responsible trainer of sporting dogs who uses them will tell you the same thing.

as houndlove says, you don't go straight to an ecollar. They are supposed to be used for "proofing" your final behavior. Check out Leslie Nelson's really reliable recall FIRST. You may find your dog ends up with perfect recall just from that program without having to spend $$ on a remote collar. Although I have doubts about the wisdom of ever letting a dog-aggressive dog run off leash.

I don't understand why a long lead won't do the trick.

As I said in the other thread, my first steps would be to start teaching a recall from scratch. I would even give it a different name. Here is an article outlining one of the methods I like:

[linkhttp://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/Lesson6.html]Shirley Chong - Recall[/link]

I agree with Xerxes about long lines too. I would certainly use the remote training collars as a LAST resort, or as a final proofing method, but only if absolutely necessary. IMO a lot of folks abuse them, and do more damage than good for the dogs.

ORIGINAL: Lilly Tilly

Hi, has anyone experience with remote training collars, either the citronella spray sort, or the zappers?

I REALLY want to teach my recently adopted spayed, 3 yr old  Dob/Lab, to walk with me, (and RETURN!)  in our back fields. The other day she got loose (stupid me) and took off into the woods, nose to the ground, without any response to my calls. At home she is stubborn, but obedient for the most part. I was lucky that after 10-15 mins, she stopped and sniffed something long enough for me to grab her collar. Extra scarey for me as she is dog aggressive!

I know some folks think the electronic collars cruel, but i think leaving her tied/in house as i go off on my nature walks on our land, more cruel.  Citronella collars state they have shown themselves to work better than electronic ones. Anyone have experience with either?

Thanks!
Lilly

This is just a question of your dog not yet understanding your recall.  Grab the DVD or booklet by Leslie Nelson, "Really Reliable Recall" and do all the steps.  Then, train a whistle emergency recall.  I would be very surprised if you can't teach the average Dobe to have a great recall using those methods, and I suspect that if you learn to train the recall properly, you may not need to proof it using an e-collar.  Until you get the booklet, don't call your dog - keep her on leash, and make "getting to my human" the most pleasant thing in the world.  I hope you didn't scold her for not coming immediately - that's a fatal mistake and will only produce a dog that never wants to come.

As always, THANKS so much for the great advice and links  folks!

["I don't understand why a long lead won't do the trick"]

Altho she seems to be used to stepping around lines, i found in the fields everything causes her to get her legs tangles in the lines, or the line gets caught in shrubbery, making any line work next to impossible for us. How is this avoided?

Yeah, the dog aggressive/off line situation scares me, but hoping if i stick to our fields, that we can avoid any "situations", but no absolute guarantee than another dog would never pass thru. Also that was why i was curious about the e-collars. I get now that they should just be used for proofing.

No, i did not scold her when i grabbed her collar...i did not really say anthing. As she did not return to me, (she was standing, sniffing the ground when i grabbed her) i did not praise her either. Hope that was ok. We just leashed up and marched on home, very relieved.

I think you should start training a really good recall from scratch completely.  I'm not understanding in your post the problem with a long line (which I think would be really useful).  I'm also not sure why you want to use a e-collar to train/proof this behaviour..... what else have you tried first? 
 
By really good recall, I mean a recall that is so reliable the dog returns no matter what the distraction - and if she is dog aggressive then I suspect other dogs will be the ultimate distraction!  You need to work up to this distraction gradually but do some work on reducing her reactivity around other dogs before you get to this stage.

I think the key thing here is that this dog is recently adopted. She needs time and training before you can be able to let her off leash, and she hasn't had that yet. She also hasn't had the time yet to be able to decide whether or not an e-collar is necessary for her.
Also, if you find that the long line gets tangled, and since it sounds like it's mostly just you where you're walking with her, a flexi leash might work better for you. That way you won't have a bunch of line to get tangled around things since it'll retract if she's not using the full length. I've found that easier to manage in heavily wooded areas with Max than the long line.

ORIGINAL: Lilly Tilly

Altho she seems to be used to stepping around lines, i found in the fields everything causes her to get her legs tangles in the lines, or the line gets caught in shrubbery, making any line work next to impossible for us. How is this avoided?

Here is how I taught Jules (my chocolate lab) to hang out off the leash.

This took a while. After teaching him to "come" at home I took him to an enclosed tennis court outside. We practiced "come" there. I, too, used a long lead and had the same problem until I got a 16 foot retractable leash. That worked great! We went on a field where there are no people or dogs and practiced "come" on a retractable leash with treats. I found that he likes staying around me. I mean, he can walk away about 30 feet but if I call him he runs to me. So, realizing that he likes being around me I started running away from him and found that he chased me to keep up. I'd just say "let's go jules! This way!" and it was like a game to him. I didn't even need treats. We practiced that on a leash for months until I saw that he was being consistent. Now I can let him loose as long as other people and dogs are not around because then he'll run over to play. Can't make him stop doing that yet

And my point is...try a retractable leash so your dog doesn't get wrapped up in it

Quick question about the really reliable recall.  We learned it as an emergency recall in Scout's obedience training class and she's pretty solid at this point.  The trainer suggested that we save it for emergency situations and don't overuse it for fear that it will become too common and easier to ignore.  What about non-emergency, off leash situations where she's just wandered a bit far and you want to bring her in?  Anybody teach two recalls?

I have taught three.  One is my everyday recall word - then I have a "really reliable" word.  Thirdly, I teach a whistle recall.  Dogs don't get hung up on language like we do.  If you want, you can teach your dog to come when you say "truck". []  Same method - different word or sound is all.

I have a zapper coller for my Dane. And even though it came with a training CD, I really don't feel that is the way to go, and did not get it for training purposes. Bubblegum came to be at 3 yrs old,,,kind of scary getting a dog that big and that old when they don't want to listen. She was a show dog, so I was under the impression that I would have no problems with her and other dogs and people. But I was wrong and she was not the dog I thought she was.  In my neighborhood we have all little yappy dogs,,,they bark at her and she rears up and lunges at them. One day she got away from me. She is a big dog,,,and really can take me just about anywhere she wants to go....and I became afraid to take her anywhere. She also has issues in our home,,,seems to want to protect it or me,,,not even sure. That is when I got the collar for her. I agree with all the other above posts. Train her without it if you can.
I put Bubblegums on her when we go for walks and when certain friends come over.  Its more or less "in case of emergency!" As was mentioned above, if you dog is new to you it means so much. It took Bubblegum almost a year before she ended up the way she is now. Bubby listens very well now, but unfortunately when she does get excited,,,she does not seem to know that I am there giving her commands...so her collar serves that purpose.

but unfortunately when she does get excited,,,she does not seem to know that I am there giving her commands...so her collar serves that purpose.

 
exactly. That is the proper use of a remote collar-- to "remind" the distracted dog to pay attention to you so you can issue a command. But you have to teach the dog what the commands mean first in non-distracting situations before you go strap on the collar. And many dogs, particularly of certain herding and working breeds, always manage to pay attention to their handlers no matter what is going on-- these dogs are unlikely to ever need a remote collar.

"Bubby listens very well now, but unfortunately when she does get excited,,,she does not seem to know that I am there giving her commands...so her collar serves that purpose."

That sounds exactley like my GypsOphelia!

This forum has been so very helpful to me in the short time i have been here. I will look (perhaps) at getting a collar for the above reason, somewhere waaay down the road...and in the meantime i will continue working with my girl.