It's Me or the Dog

spiritdogs

But, Ron, you can, at least, sing and play guitar.  You could be the troubador trainer... 

Thank you for the compliment. And don't tempt me. Dang it, now I have an itch to work up a version of "Hair of the Dog" by Nazareth.

"Now you're messing with a, a son of a - sit, good boy .."

Or invite Keanu Reeves on the show. He has a band called Dog.

spiritdogs

So, to describe it as taking control in a given situation is just a description of behavior, and, thus, not a position on any theory.  

Taking control = is just a description of behavior

Dominance =  is just a description of behavior

Aka the same monkey but just wearing a different dress

espencer

spiritdogs

So, to describe it as taking control in a given situation is just a description of behavior, and, thus, not a position on any theory.  

 

Taking control = is just a description of behavior

Dominance =  is just a description of behavior

Aka the same monkey but just wearing a different dress

CM threads from long ago - same monkey wearing a different tux, which is getting older by the minute. *Edited, discussion in regards to other forums is not allowed*

JackieG

denise m

They are actually very proactive about training and having well behaved and socialized dogs. They watch these shows for entertainment, their general interest in dogs and also for education and ideas they can apply to their own pet.

 

That's me you're describing!  None of these shows have to be taken so seriously  that it would cause arguments among like minded people.

WHAT?!  WHERE is that rolling on the floor laughing with tears rolling down my cheeks while slapping the ground helplessly smilie when you need it?!

- -

Ron, I think we should be called Spiritdogs' Troupe of Training Troubadours and I could do a little dance routine with a pole and some maracas in the background.

Chuffy

Ron, I think we should be called Spiritdogs' Troupe of Training Troubadours and I could do a little dance routine with a pole and some maracas in the background.

I think I might be able to round up a bit of redneck flamenco guitar. Although, I think it would be more fun to get the saxon outfit that Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden wore in the video for "Run to the Hills."

Anyway, back to topic, which kind of ties in with that. These shows are entertainment. And ratings keep a show on the air. Sad but true. To some extent, any show has to follow the old adage from news reporting. "If it bleeds, it leads."

Speaking of shows, I thought I recalled that Dunbar did have a show. But evidently it couldn't get the ratings in America that DW got. And I thnk Good Dog U didn't get much ratings, either. IMOTD puts out good training information and perhaps they don't mind VS being a bit over the top with how she talks to humans because of the very fact that it is opposite of how CM talks to people. Contrast, that is.

Still, I wouldn't mind of she were a little less severe. Then again, as I have said, some people need a kick in the pants. And I'm sure the people on the show already know how people are usually portrayed. I think there's a bit of that "I'm going to be on tv" thing going. They don't care how they are treated, they're "on tv." Since VS is also an actress, I wonder if there's a bit of acting going on in her reactions on camera. The perfected eye roll, the stern schoolmarm/dominatrix thing. And also, too, it shows that even the seemingly clueless people can get a clue and learn to train their dogs.

spiritdogs

espencer

spiritdogs

So, to describe it as taking control in a given situation is just a description of behavior, and, thus, not a position on any theory.  

 

Taking control = is just a description of behavior

Dominance =  is just a description of behavior

Aka the same monkey but just wearing a different dress

 

 

CM threads from long ago - same monkey wearing a different tux, which is getting older by the minute. *Edited, discussion in regards to other forums is not allowed*

Oops, sorry - that's why I did not capitalize the first letter of the place.  My bad.  But, I think we all get the point that we do not need another "range war" here. 

ron2

Chuffy

Ron, I think we should be called Spiritdogs' Troupe of Training Troubadours and I could do a little dance routine with a pole and some maracas in the background.

I think I might be able to round up a bit of redneck flamenco guitar. Although, I think it would be more fun to get the saxon outfit that Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden wore in the video for "Run to the Hills."

Anyway, back to topic, which kind of ties in with that. These shows are entertainment. And ratings keep a show on the air. Sad but true. To some extent, any show has to follow the old adage from news reporting. "If it bleeds, it leads."

Speaking of shows, I thought I recalled that Dunbar did have a show. But evidently it couldn't get the ratings in America that DW got. And I thnk Good Dog U didn't get much ratings, either. IMOTD puts out good training information and perhaps they don't mind VS being a bit over the top with how she talks to humans because of the very fact that it is opposite of how CM talks to people. Contrast, that is.

Still, I wouldn't mind of she were a little less severe. Then again, as I have said, some people need a kick in the pants. And I'm sure the people on the show already know how people are usually portrayed. I think there's a bit of that "I'm going to be on tv" thing going. They don't care how they are treated, they're "on tv." Since VS is also an actress, I wonder if there's a bit of acting going on in her reactions on camera. The perfected eye roll, the stern schoolmarm/dominatrix thing. And also, too, it shows that even the seemingly clueless people can get a clue and learn to train their dogs.

I can't believe that the people don't know.  I mean, all you have to do is watch for a couple of episodes and it becomes abundantly clear that you will be chastised if you have erred.  But, at least it ain't Jerry Springer - you can leave your body armor at home, I guess.

spiritdogs

I can't believe that the people don't know.  I mean, all you have to do is watch for a couple of episodes and it becomes abundantly clear that you will be chastised if you have erred

True. And if a person is put off by the show, they can certainly switch the channel. Or drop by here. We have all the answers. And a varied wardrobe. I've got to hurry and get to the make-up trailer and wait for my poncho to get back from the dry cleaners.

Unfortunately I don't have animal planet. it is just me and hubby and since we are not big tv watchers, only have the basic and AP does not come in that. I would love if it did.

I did see this lady in Greatest American Dog.

I also saw one episode of this show at Mom's when I went there to visit.  In this episode she and family loaded up 3 dogs of varying sizes that they did not have control over, and dumped them loose into the dog park, where one promptly got in a fight. then she said we need to load them back up and get them out of there. Duh? I haven't attmepted to catch an episode since then. Am I missing something? it didn't seem like the place to pick up good tips. ??? Julie

 I watched an episode with 2 male labs that had Zero training and were basically running amok.  She took them to the park and let them loose, KNOWING they had no recall.  Of course, they took off and didn't want to come back.  She resorted to all kinds of tricks to make them come back (running away shouting, laying down on the ground, that kind of thing).  Completely failed to mention that the dogs were not likely to fall for those tricks for long and would need lots of training on the recall before being loosed ina public place again....  Also failed to mention that the very act of having the dogs out of control in a public place is blatantly illegal in the first place, whether you have a TV crew with you or not.

The voice over guy did a nice impressive bit where he said "Can she get these dogs under control?" and the camera cut to her with these 2 dogs sitting perfectly quietly in front of her, watching her face..... Oh no, wait, watching her HANDS, which were holding a couple of dog biscuits.  Hm, yeah, REALLY impressive, controlling a couple of Labs by bribing them with food.  I'm struggling to believe no one had tried that one before she turned up.

Oh and she also recommended neutering them for behavioural reasons.  Of course I had to switch it of at that point.  Nuff said.

Chuffy

 I watched an episode with 2 male labs that had Zero training and were basically running amok.  She took them to the park and let them loose, KNOWING they had no recall.  Of course, they took off and didn't want to come back.  She resorted to all kinds of tricks to make them come back (running away shouting, laying down on the ground, that kind of thing).  Completely failed to mention that the dogs were not likely to fall for those tricks for long and would need lots of training on the recall before being loosed ina public place again....  Also failed to mention that the very act of having the dogs out of control in a public place is blatantly illegal in the first place, whether you have a TV crew with you or not.

The voice over guy did a nice impressive bit where he said "Can she get these dogs under control?" and the camera cut to her with these 2 dogs sitting perfectly quietly in front of her, watching her face..... Oh no, wait, watching her HANDS, which were holding a couple of dog biscuits.  Hm, yeah, REALLY impressive, controlling a couple of Labs by bribing them with food.  I'm struggling to believe no one had tried that one before she turned up.

Oh and she also recommended neutering them for behavioural reasons.  Of course I had to switch it of at that point.  Nuff said.

I didn't care for that one either, or for letting uncontrolled dogs off lead in a public dog park.  But, of course, that does happen in real life LOL.  Another reason I hate dog parks for the most part.  The cookie part doesn't so much bother me, because many behaviors are first lured by introducing food, but the off leash thing at a public place is not ok in my book.

spiritdogs

The cookie part doesn't so much bother me, because many behaviors are first lured by introducing food,

It didn't BOTHER me as such, so much as completely failed to impress me.  ANYONE could have stood there and done that, but they cut it that way to make her look impressive which completely failed.... for me anyway.

 I like her focus on positive reinforcement.  Whenever I've watched the show (which has admittedly been a little while as I don't have cable anymore), I've agreed with most of things she has said about training the dogs.  I think her goal is to create happy, healthy dogs with owners who are no longer being overrun by their dogs.

I do think she's a bit harsh with the people involved, but I honestly sometimes think those people NEED it.  Some people are incredibly obtuse and there's no sense sugarcoating things.  She doesn't accept any sort of excuses from people and usually calls them on their bunk. 

I also wanted to note that these people purposely went on her show, knowing darn well what her attitude with people is.  She wouldn't be my first pick for a trainer since I deal with that kind of attitude rather poorly, but I think if someone chooses to go on her show, they're surely knowing what they're getting into!

 I think my main issue with her is - I honestly think I could probably do what she does.  Easily.  And probably pi** the owners off a whole lot less.  I'd probably use less sound aversion as well.  I don't dislike her, I don't disagree with her... she just fails to impress me because I think half the members on this board probably exceed her skill as a trainer.  And Ron has a point in that it's her acting skills (anc connections ?) that have got her to where she is.  Not her skill with training, or connecting with dogs.... or their owners.

Chuffy

Oh no, wait, watching her HANDS, which were holding a couple of dog biscuits.  Hm, yeah, REALLY impressive, controlling a couple of Labs by bribing them with food

Technically, Shadow is part Lab, even though he best fits the Sibe profile. I've bribed him a lot. Bribery and marking have paid off. He can walk in heel. I can break him off scent. I can call off in mid-chase and get it.Gimme 5, high 5, down, stay, here, move. And it's all your fault, Chuffy. A debate a few years ago, you said dogs have a tendency to increase a behavior if it's rewarding. The phrase "more is better" is very dog. That's what led me to try the clicker and give +R my full and undivided attention. That and Spiritdog's consistent advice and tips. All your fault. You got me into wholesale bribery of dogs. And I don't play fair. I bribe with juicy bits of meat, here and there.

You do raise a good point. Anyone could "bribe" a Lab. Do we know that the clients have actually tried that? Or were they busy being "alpha?" Also, as you know, well timed bribery is even more effective and she may have brought them up to speed by showing them when to bribe.

We still bribe Shadow to go outside, sometimes. It's harmless, to me. It's kind of an understanding. He knows (usually DW leaving for work as I'm already gone) that she is leaving for work and she leads him out with his food bowl and a piece of cheese or meat and it's kind of a ritual. Other times, he goes out on his own. If we had to do that forever, big whoopie. It beats trying to punish him. All the standard physical corrections don't work on him. And if a person was to strike him with the intent of causing pain or doing harm, he could defend himself. Bribery is easier and more fun.

I know you have a thing about spay/neuter. I wouldn't turn off a show based on that but, to each his/her own. And I agree, it is certainly edited for drama. Does any dog show have the backbone to show the failures?

Speaking of bribery, who wants chocolate?